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re: People who hate "capitalism" and have no idea what "capitalism" is
Posted on 10/24/18 at 11:35 am to crazy4lsu
Posted on 10/24/18 at 11:35 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Well there are worker-owned enterprises that do have the ability to expand. Look at Mondragon Corporation in Spain
there are examples of these businesses within capitalist-leaning systems that value private property, yes
but that's clearly not what these people are referencing. they want the entire system to be "socialist" (as they define it)
quote:
That said, I don't think American socialists are looking to Mondragon as a model,
100%
also, Americans likely couldn't exist in that sort of system anyway. those systems work in certain European cultures but wouldn't work in our Anglo culture. i've referenced this before but it's a great listen
Freakanomics - Secrets of the German Economy
quote:
I always used that as a metaphor for businesses. The customers pour in the Tender Vittles and in the U.S., when you had a union, they would fight and spill the whole bowl of Tender Vittles. In the end, no one could eat anymore. I looked at U.A.W. “It’s insane, they’re going to kill their company.” Sure enough, they damn near did. General Motors was almost bankrupt. In Germany, the unions have representatives on the board of the company. Yes, they say, “The first thing” — that this bowl of Tender Vittles — “we have to make sure that the bowl is there. We can fight all we want, but don’t spill the bowl.” You don’t destroy your company. That was not the attitude of Anglo-Saxon unions, either in England or the U.S.
0
Posted on 10/24/18 at 11:37 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
because there is no interest in emulating a successful worker co-op, but rather, just complaining about capitalism.
exactly
and the problem is that they don't define "capitalism" well at all. they see it as this system where they have no freedom when it's the clear opposite. the scary part is that they don't really want freedom because they don't want the responsibility that comes with it
it's an echo of Jordan Peterson that really resonates (and i was about to make a thread about a specific lecture of his talking about this)
Posted on 10/24/18 at 11:46 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Ironically, under capitalism, you can still voluntarily have socialist enterprises (worker owned)
it's not really ironic
capitalism is freedom
that means that in a system of freedom you're allowed to try things out
Posted on 10/24/18 at 11:53 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Well there are worker-owned enterprises that do have the ability to expand. Look at Mondragon Corporation in Spain. That said, I don't think American socialists are looking to Mondragon as a model, even though it is probably the most successful model of a worker-owned enterprise.
I mean, there are an entire range of ownership possibilities between a full-blown workers' coop and a closely-held corp by a single person. In between you have everything from large and flat partnerships to public corps with huge shares devoted to employee vesting and on and on and on. Saturn Corp (the car company) at one time had a ownership structure heavily skewed towards the coop model, IIRC.
It's kind of like the point of our system: that an entire range of models can be built and experimented with in different industries and in different contexts.
This post was edited on 10/24/18 at 11:55 am
Posted on 10/24/18 at 11:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I feel stupider after reading that.
SlowFlowPro
Posted on 10/24/18 at 12:24 pm to Taxing Authority
OP is a chud. Do not listen to him. Our glory will come soon comrades
Posted on 10/24/18 at 12:31 pm to MF Doom
is that Maduro? 
Posted on 10/25/18 at 11:49 am to SlowFlowPro
i had to bump this thread for this post
first comment (and it's serious)
first comment (and it's serious)
quote:
Jeff Bezos contributes less to society than your garbage man
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