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Started By
Message
Obstruction without the underlying crime
Posted on 4/18/19 at 6:52 pm
Posted on 4/18/19 at 6:52 pm
Is a thing.
Elements (copied from an article, for purposes of paraphrasing):
Corrupt intent is the key. It isn’t specific to the intent to cover up an underlying crime, which would have to exist to want to cover it up.
There can be any number of actual motives, but the intent would have to be corrupt.
So you know where I stand, I don’t think Trump is guilty of obstruction (subject to me reading the report), and I think the whole investigation was bullshite.
But please just understand this about the obstruction offense. There doesn’t have to be an underlying crime.
Elements (copied from an article, for purposes of paraphrasing):
quote:
the existence of a pending federal judicial proceeding; the defendant’s knowledge of this proceeding; and the defendant’s corrupt intent to interfere with, or attempt to interfere with, the proceeding.
Corrupt intent is the key. It isn’t specific to the intent to cover up an underlying crime, which would have to exist to want to cover it up.
There can be any number of actual motives, but the intent would have to be corrupt.
So you know where I stand, I don’t think Trump is guilty of obstruction (subject to me reading the report), and I think the whole investigation was bullshite.
But please just understand this about the obstruction offense. There doesn’t have to be an underlying crime.
15
Posted on 4/18/19 at 6:56 pm to baybeefeetz
[/url][/img]This post was edited on 4/18/19 at 7:38 pm
Posted on 4/18/19 at 6:57 pm to Michael Hayes
Posted on 4/18/19 at 6:59 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
But please just understand this about the obstruction offense. There doesn’t have to be an underlying crime
There doesn't have to be a charge for the underlying crime. But while I'm sure there have been exceptions I suspect that the overwhelming majority of obstruction charges have occurred where the prosecutor still believed the underllying crime occurred but just didn't feel like he can make it stick
In this case it doesn't even appear that Mueller believes collusion occurred
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:00 pm to ShortyRob
Fair enough but it happens.
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:01 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Corrupt intent is the key. It isn’t specific to the intent to cover up an underlying crime, which would have to exist to want to cover it up.
Still requires an affirmative action. And corrupt intent is damn hard to prove when there is no reason for corrupt intent. The underlying crime usually gives rise the the “corrupt” intent.
What is the alleged obstruction this time?
This post was edited on 4/18/19 at 7:03 pm
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:01 pm to baybeefeetz
In this case, there does. If the initial crime was bogus, and the official charge was manufactured and false, and now proven false; no prosecutor would touch it. The real step would be to investigate the initial predication to see if there was merit, to absolve all sides....
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:02 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Fair enough but it happens
Perhaps but I suspect the list is short and the cases where it has occurred have been flagrantly clear-cut
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:03 pm to ShortyRob
I’m not so sure. I think they get hacked off if you lie to them. Johnny Justices trying to make a name for themselves.
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:04 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
I’m not so sure. I think they get hacked off if you lie to them. Johnny Justices trying to make a name for themselves
well in this case Trump didn't talk to them so quite obviously he didn't lie to them
LOL
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:04 pm to BBONDS25
I don’t know about I’m this case. I’m talking conceptually.
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:04 pm to BBONDS25
Your post won't be answered.
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:04 pm to baybeefeetz
Case in point.
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:05 pm to ShortyRob
Sounds like he elbowed some people in hopes they would do the right thing.
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:05 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
well in this case Trump didn't talk to them so quite obviously he didn't lie to them
I should point out that this is when I knew the case was over. When we started hearing that Mueller wanted to interview Trump I knew that Mueller had nothing
His only chance was to get Trump to say something stupid
And liberals really thought that Trump would be dumb enough to do it.
Alas that didn't work. Once it didn't you knew it was done because if Mueller had something he wouldn't have wanted to talk to Trump
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:06 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
There can be any number of actual motives, but the intent would have to be corrupt.
We already know what Trump's motives were because it was stated in the transcripts. Trump wanted the sham investigation over because he knew it would stall or curtail his political agendas.
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:06 pm to ShortyRob
Very astute.
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:07 pm to baybeefeetz
quote:
Very astute
And that's not Monday morning quarterbacking. I said it on this board. Of course all the liberals acted like that made no sense
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:07 pm to Revelator
And he is going to follow through on that, I believe, and I predict it will bear fruit.
Why can’t some of the posters on here deal in abstractions?
Why can’t some of the posters on here deal in abstractions?
Posted on 4/18/19 at 7:13 pm to baybeefeetz
Can you specify the federal obstruction statute to which you're referring? One issue is that I believe people arent on the same page about that and it's quite important. There are more than one statutes regarding obstruction.
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