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re: NY Times: latest UFO article - crash retrievals (Tucker reporting it, pg. 6 and 12)
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:18 pm to goatmilker
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:18 pm to goatmilker
quote:
Yes. Your math
So far we have found 100 billion galaxies.
He thinks we are building and launching new telescopes in the next 5 years to observe.
2
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:27 pm to xxTIMMYxx
Trump should offer the aliens all the liberals they want to experiment on or use as a food source.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:30 pm to xxTIMMYxx
quote:
Oh my god. We have bible thumper here
Yes, that's right. Metaloctopus, the Bible thumper. Using basic logic, makes me a thumper. Tell me something, sci-fi fan? If I put a computer in front of you and said it created itself from random processes billions of years ago that somehow caused it to become the incredible super machine that it is, would you believe me, or call me a lunatic? I'm assuming you'd call me a lunatic. Well, you'd be right. But, then consider that a computer is a JOKE compared to a SINGLE human cell... Not a single human being, but, a single CELL. Do you not think that it is the most absurd, foolish thing imaginable to believe that we weren't created, just as a computer has a creator?
And this understanding is how we form the basis of knowledge, itself. All of the scientists who put together the "Scientific Method" were Christians. They sought to understand the universe because they believed it COULD be understood. They made predictions that the Biblical model lead them to pursue. And their predictions were right. From there, we improved our abilities to see the expanse and complexity of those things which the early scientists hypothesized. If we don't use the Biblical model, we don't have understanding. We don't have a starting point. We have paganism, where the stars, themselves, are gods, and outer space was heaven to them.
I'll take my kind of reasoning over "they're out there man..... they just gotta be" any day.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 7/24/20 at 2:52 pm to xxTIMMYxx
quote:
He thinks we are building and launching new telescopes in the next 5 years to observe.
I didn't mention anything about telescopes. But since you kindly brought it up, let's talk about that.
Telescopes have always been used to observe. They help you see further. My assumption, based on the entire history of telescopes (which go back hundreds of years) is that these new telescopes will be more powerful and allow us to study depths of space we haven't been able to see clearly, or at all, before. What kind of person immediately jumps to the conclusion that new telescopes are being built and launched to find aliens?
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:13 pm to BoarEd
Could the confusion here in this dialogue be that of the definition of "Life", itself? Maybe God created life all around the universe. Some intelligent and others, not so much. Conditions for life in other forms may or may not need the same air, water, temperature "WE" do.
This does not go against God, or creation, just our understanding of it all.
It says so in the Bible.
This does not go against God, or creation, just our understanding of it all.
It says so in the Bible.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 3:56 pm to LookSquirrel
quote:
Could the confusion here in this dialogue be that of the definition of "Life", itself? Maybe God created life all around the universe. Some intelligent and others, not so much. Conditions for life in other forms may or may not need the same air, water, temperature "WE" do.
This does not go against God, or creation, just our understanding of it all.
It says so in the Bible.
God certainly COULD have created life all over the universe if He wanted to. That doesn't mean that He had to, or that He did. The book of Genesis is the story of God's creation. There is no reference to life anywhere other than Heaven or Earth. If we start believing that there are billions of worlds with their own Bibles, then that is just a cult. Jesus died for the sins of the world, not the universe. Are we to assume that there are other created beings, whom the Bible makes no reference to, whom are sinless and thus did not need Jesus' sacrifice? The Bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Hence why He sent His Son to die for our sins. Does "all" only mean Earth? Well, yes, considering the Bible does not acknowledge any other mortals outside of Earth. You have to go outside of the Bible to believe in aliens. Sorry, I'm not doing that, friend.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:07 pm to Metaloctopus
I admire your conviction. I think a little different on this subject, but you are clear where you stand and that is cool. Peace be with you brother.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:10 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
Well, yes, considering the Bible does not acknowledge any other mortals outside of Earth.
I actually believe in the Bible and concede your point here, insofar as I understand the Bible. I think we can all agree that the metaphorical/allegorical language of Revelation might be open to some alternative explanations, although they would not explicitly acknowledge extra-terrestrials, can we not?
quote:
You have to go outside of the Bible to believe in aliens. Sorry, I'm not doing that, friend.
I think the danger here is - if aliens are actually confirmed, your logic can be turned to suggest the existence of such life is proof against the Bible.
Sorry, I'm not going there, friend.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:14 pm to LookSquirrel
quote:
Peace be with you brother.
And with you, brother.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:23 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
We haven't found that anywhere. Period.
quote:
In November 2013, astronomers reported, based on Kepler space mission data, that there could be as many as 40 billion Earth-sized planets orbiting in the habitable zones of Sun-like stars and red dwarfs in the Milky Way,[5][6] 11 billion of which may be orbiting Sun-like stars.[7]
A 2015 review concluded that the exoplanets Kepler-62f, Kepler-186f and Kepler-442b were likely the best candidates for being potentially habitable.[8] These are at a distance of 1,200, 490 and 1,120 light-years away, respectively. Of these, Kepler-186f is similar in size to Earth with a 1.2-Earth-radius measure and it is located towards the outer edge of the habitable zone around its red dwarf. The potentially habitable planet TOI 700 d is only 100 light years away.[9]
wiki
Sure, you could argue that we haven't confirmed any habitable exoplanets yet, but you're giving yourself extremely long odds if you say that none of those 40 billion planets in the Milky Way alone are habitable.
I mean, the assertion that there aren't any other habitable planets is absolutely asinine when you consider these extremely large numbers of potentially habitable planets.
The idea that we are alone in the universe is gone the same way of the dinosaurs by now.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:23 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I think the danger here is - if aliens are actually confirmed, your logic can be turned to suggest the existence of such life is proof against the Bible
Bingo.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:28 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I think we can all agree that the metaphorical/allegorical language of Revelation might be open to some alternative explanations, although they would not explicitly acknowledge extra-terrestrials, can we not?
Certainly there is much about Revelation that is difficult to understand fully. However, Genesis makes it rather clear that this is where God put life, as there is no reference to any other world of life. Revelation, meanwhile, does not make any reference that any Biblical scholar I am aware of has ever concluded has anything to do with unbeknownst lifeforms. Revelation might be confusing in parts, but it doesn't speak in outright riddles that we could miss that badly.
quote:
I think the danger here is - if aliens are actually confirmed, your logic can be turned to suggest the existence of such life is proof against the Bible.
Sorry, I'm not going there, friend
quote:
I think the danger here is - if aliens are actually confirmed, your logic can be turned to suggest the existence of such life is proof against the Bible.
Sorry, I'm not going there, friend
I see no danger whatsoever, and am not in the least bit concerned that the Bible will be proven false. If I had any doubts about the Bible, I wouldn't be a believer. A person of faith can't be afraid of a non-Biblical belief system proving the Bible wrong. It takes a lack of faith to think the Bible couldn't stand up to outside theories.
If you need to believe in aliens to defend the Bible, then I pray God will give you clarity on this matter. God doesn't an assist from outside theories to fool proof His Word.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:30 pm to Metaloctopus
I think your biblical argument is dead in the water too, man. And don't take that the wrong way, but the nephilim came from the skies.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:32 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
However, Genesis makes it rather clear that this is where God put life, as there is no reference to any other world of life.
So, your faith in Genesis means it must be the exclusive and exhaustive record of the Creation?
Biblical scholars, for centuries, interpreted the Bible so literally as to conclude that theories that the Earth was not the center of the universe or that the Sun and heavens did not revolve around a fixed Earth were heresies.
Now, obviously, as human beings, their interpretations were wrong. At the very least flawed. Would you concede that and we can agree to disagree on aliens?
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:34 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
If you need to believe in aliens to defend the Bible
The Bible is "indefensible" in a literal, factual, evidentiary sense. Ascription to an Abrahamic faith requires just that, and only that, faith.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:40 pm to BoarEd
quote:
Sure, you could argue that we haven't confirmed any habitable exoplanets yet, but you're giving yourself extremely long odds if you say that none of those 40 billion planets in the Milky Way alone are habitable.
I mean, the assertion that there aren't any other habitable planets is absolutely asinine when you consider these extremely large numbers of potentially habitable planets.
The idea that we are alone in the universe is gone the same way of the dinosaurs by now.
My friend, you and others are all making the same arguments. Planet size has nothing to do with habitability. Having a Sun does not by itself make a planet habitable. You have to have all of the right mixtures of gases, enough water, and the perfect distance from the Sun so as to not freeze or burn to death. And that's just off the top of my head. The list goes on, and I can't remember enough of it to rattle it off. But just the atmospheric gases needing to be mixed just right so as not to poison you is enough to make the odds of life existing elsewhere essentially impossible. It should have been impossible here. My argument and belief is that God created this world as it is just for us.
I while I DO NOT believe life exists anywhere else in the universe, my statement was not that there is no life anywhere else, it was that, of all the planets we've observed, none have come close to having the right conditions for life. And that is true. The planets that they say "'could' be habitable, have not been examined beyond what can be seen from afar. Size, shape, and having a Sun is not close to being enough to say those planets are habitable. It's a cop out. "We can't rule it out, so it's possible".
Sure, they can't rule it out. Because they haven't been there. Do you now how much it takes to rule in FAVOR of habitability? It's astronomical. You're grossly trivializing the odds of life existing ANYWHERE, and telling me I'm basically an idiot for not believing in aliens. Life doesn't just pop up because you have a Sun. Life doesn't pop up because you have water. Those are essential and yet very basic in the grand scheme of life.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:43 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
My friend, you and others are all making the same arguments. Planet size has nothing to do with habitability.
I never said it did. And I'm also not the one that is making the claim that there are 40 billion potentially habitable planets within our own galaxy alone. That would be the folks at Kepler and NASA.
Like I said, you're giving yourself extremely long odds of being correct here.
Also, I'm not saying you're an idiot in any way, shape, or form. Apologies if any of my posts have come across that way. It isn't my intention.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:46 pm to Metaloctopus
quote:
You have to have all of the right mixtures of gases, enough water, and the perfect distance from the Sun so as to not freeze or burn to death.
You need, essentially, a Class M planet in the halo zone - that's what you're saying.
Odds are there are MILLIONS of them in the universe (ETA: Maybe billions).
quote:
But just the atmospheric gases needing to be mixed just right so as not to poison you is enough to make the odds of life existing elsewhere essentially impossible.
I think you're confusing "improbable" with "essentially impossible" and forgetting about the scale we're talking about here.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:48 pm to BoarEd
quote:
And don't take that the wrong way, but the nephilim came from the skies.
Well...it gets a bit convoluted, but the watchers came from the skies, bred with women and produced Nephilim...which has also been translated as men of renown...
But yeah...
Posted on 7/24/20 at 4:51 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I think you're confusing "improbable" with "essentially impossible" and forgetting about the scale we're talking about here
This. Also, this all assumes that any potential ET out there has the same requirements that humans do.
For instance, there is a moon of Saturn, I believe it was, that is very similar to Earth. Rivers, lakes, oceans, mountains, tectonic activity, etc. Except, the water on that moon isn't water. It's liquid methane. Is it not possible that life found a way to exist and maybe even thrive in environments that are completely different than ours? I'd argue it is entirely possible. After all, we have extremophiles here on Earth that live directly over methane vents at the very bottom of the ocean.
40 billion planets in the Milky Way that are potentially habitable for we humans. We have no idea what is "habitable" for life that may have began on an entirely different sort of planet.
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