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Started By
Message
Mueller makes reckless move with seizure of Trump transition emails
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:16 am
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:16 am
thehill.com
quote:
J. Edgar Hoover used to say that “justice is just incidental to law and order.” It was a telling quote from someone who routinely abused his power in seeking what he viewed as enemies of law and order. Hoover is now a pariah at the FBI and the Justice Department, but his attitude toward the use of federal power lingers like a dormant virus. Too often investigators interpret uncertain legal questions as a license for action.
That seems to be the case with a new and troubling controversy over a massive seizure of emails by special counsel Robert Mueller from the General Services Administration (GSA). Mueller did an end run around Trump transition officials and counsel by seizing tens of thousands of emails from the GSA despite claims of privilege. The move was legally unprecedented and strategically reckless. In a gratuitous muscle play, Mueller may have added a potential complication to the use of evidence that could contaminate much of his investigation in any later trial.
For those familiar with Mueller, the blunt-force approach taken toward the GSA is something of a signature of Mueller and his heavy-handed associates like Andrew Weissmann. As I have previously written, Mueller has a controversial record in attacking attorney-client privilege as well as harsh tactics against targets. As a U.S. attorney, he was accused of bugging an attorney-client conversation, and as special counsel he forced (with the approval of a federal judge) the attorney of Paul Manafort to become a witness against her own client. Weissmann’s record is even more controversial, including major reversals in past prosecutions for exceeding the scope of the criminal code or questionable ethical conduct.
It is important to note that Mueller’s move takes his investigation into uncertain legal territory and may ultimately create some new law in his favor. Then again it might not. The question is why Mueller would take the risk. At issue are records held on computers and devices like mobile phones and iPads from the Trump transition team. Transition teams have long held an ambiguous position in our government. They are necessary to ensure the smooth transfer of power in the selection of new appointees and the development of policies. However, since they work before the inauguration for a president-elect, they are not considered an “agency” for the purposes of federal law.
Indeed, there are a host of special rules reaffirming the special status of transition teams and their work product. While the GSA is tasked with supplying space and equipment for transition officials, the National Archives has expressly maintained that the “materials that [presidential transition team] members create or receive are not federal or presidential records, but are considered private materials.” For this reason, under agreements with transition teams, the GSA has agreed to delete “all data on [computing] devices” used by transition officials and staff.
When Mueller’s people found out that the transition records were not yet deleted, they demanded their surrender despite the fact that Trump officials claimed that the material held privileged information that belonged to the transition team and is subject to protection from discovery. The transition lawyers insist that Richard Beckler, general counsel for the GSA, reportedly agreed with transition officials that this information belonged to the transition team and that GSA had no right to access or control the records, but GSA denies the comment. The Trump lawyers argue that, when Beckler was hospitalized, Mueller’s people moved on the seizure and acquired the thousands of messages.
According to the Trump counsel in a letter sent to Congress, the special counsel’s office told them that they did not pull emails from the equipment. However, it was later revealed this might not have been necessary because “the special counsel’s office had simultaneously received from the GSA tens of thousands of emails, including a very significant volume of privileged material.” Moreover, the special counsel later reportedly confirmed that it did not create “firewalls” or “taint teams” to confine the access and use of such material.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:24 am to cajunangelle
Mueller's spokesman has already said that the emails that weren't voluntarily given to him were obtained with a warrant. What's the big deal?
nothingburger
nothingburger
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:25 am to Haughton99
quote:
Mueller's spokesman has already said that the emails that weren't voluntarily given to him were obtained with a warrant. What's the big deal?
nothingburger
Preemptively setting the narrative for bad news, I'm guessing.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:27 am to cajunangelle
Heard Trump say this morning to let Mueller go through them. There's nothing to see anyway.
Honestly, when they come up with nothing, that's an even bigger "F you" than taking it away from them for being shady in how they acquired them.
Honestly, when they come up with nothing, that's an even bigger "F you" than taking it away from them for being shady in how they acquired them.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:29 am to cajunangelle
quote:
As a U.S. attorney, he was accused of bugging an attorney-client conversation, and as special counsel he forced (with the approval of a federal judge) the attorney of Paul Manafort to become a witness against her own client.
aww, did somebody's feewings get hurt when he twied to play with the big kids?
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:30 am to Haughton99
quote:
Indeed, there are a host of special rules reaffirming the special status of transition teams and their work product. While the GSA is tasked with supplying space and equipment for transition officials, the National Archives has expressly maintained that the “materials that [presidential transition team] members create or receive are not federal or presidential records, but are considered private materials.” For this reason, under agreements with transition teams, the GSA has agreed to delete “all data on [computing] devices” used by transition officials and staff.
quote:
When Mueller’s people found out that the transition records were not yet deleted, they demanded their surrender despite the fact that Trump officials claimed that the material held privileged information that belonged to the transition team and is subject to protection from discovery. The transition lawyers insist that Richard Beckler, general counsel for the GSA, reportedly agreed with transition officials that this information belonged to the transition team and that GSA had no right to access or control the records, but GSA denies the comment. The Trump lawyers argue that, when Beckler was hospitalized, Mueller’s people moved on the seizure and acquired the thousands of messages.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:31 am to indianswim
While I was looking for honest bob gifs I found this
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:31 am to Mephistopheles
quote:Sad man, real sad.
aww, did somebody's feewings get hurt when he twied to play with the big kids?
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:33 am to indianswim
This taints Mueller and Weissmann, therefore the entire SC probe.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:35 am to cajunangelle
nothingburger
But thanks for including photos this time Cajun
But thanks for including photos this time Cajun
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:36 am to cajunangelle
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/4/20 at 6:02 am
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:37 am to Mephistopheles
quote:
aww, did somebody's feewings get hurt when he twied to play with the big kids?
Obama has his emails and records under a five year hold at his library. If someone waited until some guy got sick and got put in the hospital and took them anyway what would you say?
If you would read the article there are procedures/regulations/laws in place to protect ALL POTUS transitional emails and documents. If this were done to any other POTUS would you be acting like a 12 year old deflecting on BamaAtl's level in response?
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:41 am to cajunangelle
Mueller must have struck a nerve with this one.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:42 am to Haughton99
quote:
weren't voluntarily given to him were obtained with a warrant. What's the big deal?
And when you receive the warrant, your attorney files a motion to quash because of the conflicts with your rights to privacy and against self incrimination.
Trust me in this, I just had to fight in New I'd say because in a WIDE sweeping supeona, the were trying to force me yo give personal emails as well...
Bottom line, sure they ask for everything they can in a supeona, and your lawyers fight it and get a judge to limit the scope if they don't agree to limit it themselces..
Sounds like Trump lawyers asked to limit the scope, guy agrees but drops dead...and Mueller pushed thru with the entire acope......
I imagine the Trump side will win....it's kinda not even in question if it happened like that scenatio
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:43 am to cajunangelle
Conservative Hit Piece. Obvious.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:45 am to cajunangelle
quote:
Richard Beckler, general counsel for the GSA, reportedly agreed with transition officials that this information belonged to the transition team and that GSA had no right to access or control the records, but GSA denies the comment. The Trump lawyers argue that, when Beckler was hospitalized, Mueller’s people moved on the seizure and acquired the thousands of messages.
The the Trump appointed guy tried to stonewall for Trump. Shocker. At least we know he took the loyalty pledge.
The emails were obtained through either consent or warrant.
nothingburger
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:46 am to Haughton99
quote:
The the Trump appointed guy tried to stonewall for Trump. Shocker. At least we know he took the loyalty pledge.
quote:Says you and Honest Bob Mueller.
The emails were obtained through either consent or warrant.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:51 am to Jbird
Axios reported on this that Weismann did this looking for something because they got assurob nothing burgers.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:51 am to Jbird
quote:
Says you and Honest Bob Mueller.
Illegally obtained emails would be inadmissible in court so why would Mueller's team waste there time getting them in an illegal way.
He and his team know the law better than you and I do.
This is the dumbest straw grasping I've seen since this probe started.
Posted on 12/18/17 at 10:54 am to cajunangelle
Based on what you've quoted here, it sounds like a he said she said where both sides were citing their own opinions on the matter as fact.
But here's what we know:
-Mueller and co have the emails
-Trump's lawyers collectively haven't publicly taken any action to prevent this
-Rosenstein stated under oath he saw no cause to fire Mueller
-Instead of filing a TRO, asking for an internal ethics review or having Rosenstein intervene, the admin hired a crisis management firm
-The crisis firm wrote a memo to congress citing the urgency of protecting the next transition team (either 3 or 7 years from now) and took no legal action
If there were a criminal act or something for which there were some civil remedy, they'd have jumped on it. But they've done nothing. So why hire a high powered law firm to play spin doctor by asking for change in the law that won't even have an effect this decade? Because they're shitting themselves and have no plan to handle this. Because they just found out. Or they knew all along, tried everything (with no leaks) and it flopped.
But here's what we know:
-Mueller and co have the emails
-Trump's lawyers collectively haven't publicly taken any action to prevent this
-Rosenstein stated under oath he saw no cause to fire Mueller
-Instead of filing a TRO, asking for an internal ethics review or having Rosenstein intervene, the admin hired a crisis management firm
-The crisis firm wrote a memo to congress citing the urgency of protecting the next transition team (either 3 or 7 years from now) and took no legal action
If there were a criminal act or something for which there were some civil remedy, they'd have jumped on it. But they've done nothing. So why hire a high powered law firm to play spin doctor by asking for change in the law that won't even have an effect this decade? Because they're shitting themselves and have no plan to handle this. Because they just found out. Or they knew all along, tried everything (with no leaks) and it flopped.
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