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Judicial Philosophy versus Political Ideology

Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:37 am
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:37 am
quote:

There is a story that two of the greatest figures in our law, Justice Holmes and Judge Learned Hand, had lunch together and afterward, as Holmes began to drive off in his carriage, Hand, in a sudden onset of enthusiasm, ran after him, crying, “Do justice, sir, do justice.” Holmes stopped the carriage and reproved Hand: “That is not my job. It is my job to apply the law.”

Judge Robert Bork
From the perspective of the Ideological Right, the very different natures of the judicial philosophies of two wings of the bench present a problem. In particular, the prevailing judicial philosophy of the Judicial Right dictates that it sometimes MUST render results inconsistent with the desires of the Ideological Right.

The Judicial Right (at least the best of them) see both the Constitution and statutes as solid, as opposed to something that can be shaped to fit an ideological mold. When the pre-existing solid shape simply CANNOT fit their mold, they acknowledge this fact, do the difficult thing, and rule accordingly even if that ruling is contrary to their own political ideology.

The Judicial Left sees both the Constitution and statutes as fluid, or at least rather malleable. Thus, they see nothing disingenuous in shaping both to fit the mold of their political views. To the contrary, their entire judicial philosophy says that they SHOULD do so.

Thus, on a Court evenly-divided between the two camps, the Ideological Left will prevail more often than the Ideological Right.

The jurists that I understand the least (and dislike the most) are those who CLAIM to be the former, but act in a manner more consistent with the latter.

And the laymen that I dislike the most are those who denigrate jurists on the Judicial Right who make principled rulings against their own POLITICAL ideology, when such is mandated by the first-discussed judicial philosophy. Those judges put principle over ideology, and partisan hacks call them “cuck.”
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 5:01 pm
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134843 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:42 am to
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13314 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:53 am to
I almost, almost upvoted your post, because it is understandable, and much the way I think about the courts, and the judges that sit on them.

Then I realized that you side with the philosophy that finds the Constitution to be a living document, basically clay to be molded as the socialist democrats see fit.

So, this is just more AggieHank, deluding himself, and attempting to get others to believe that he isn’t your run of the mill leftist. It is a better effort than most. I’ll give you that, Hankie.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:54 am to
quote:

upgrayedd
Didn’t read it
This comes as no surprise.
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
73271 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:55 am to
quote:

So, this is just more AggieHank, deluding himself, and attempting to get others to believe that he isn’t your run of the mill leftist


Yup Uncle Rico loves trying to fool everyone
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:59 am to
quote:

troyt37
You could not be more wrong, but here is a unique idea.

Why don’t we discuss the broader concept, rather than petty personal differences between posters?
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 11:59 am
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13314 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 12:03 pm to
quote:


Why don’t we discuss the broader concept, rather than petty personal differences between posters?


Because the discussion is predicated on a lie, Hankie. Your history here belies your words. Why engage in an honest discussion with someone who perpetuates one position, but holds another?

You’re caught in the same tangled web you’ve woven, Hankie.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

Because the discussion is predicated on a lie, Hankie. Your history here belies your words. Why engage in an honest discussion with someone who perpetuates one position, but holds another?
You would have zero luck finding any thread in which I have supported judicial activism, whereas you could find dozens in which I have decried it.

As an example, I make. no secret that I support early-term abortion rights, but I have said many times that Roe was a bad decision from a Constitutional perspective.

You are simply a victim of your own confirmation bias.
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13314 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 12:20 pm to
So then you agree with me, that RBG is a piece of shite activist judge, who has twisted, and bastardized, if not ignored altogether the Constitution in an overwhelming majority of her decisions, and should be impeached for wiping her arse on the oath she took, and the Constitution itself.
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 12:26 pm
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 12:28 pm to
I agree that she is philosophically part of the Judicial Left and that her judicial philosophy is not as bound by Textualism as I would like to see. I further agree that I would have ruled differently than her in many, many cases for exactly that reason.

No, she should not be impeached for a judicial philosophy that was well-known when she was nominated, vetted, and confirmed for the seat. SCOTUS was designed to be outside the partisan fray, as much as possible.
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 12:30 pm
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13314 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 12:35 pm to
"I, ________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."
This office, much more specific and lengthy than the original, is now used by every federal office investiture except for the office of the President.

The Second Oath

Appointees to the Supreme Court Bench must not only take the oath listed above, but a second oath. This statement is called The Judicial Oath. The Judiciary Act of 1789 established the federal judiciary. The Act set the number of Supreme Court Justices at six (five Associate Justices and one Chief Justice). It also mandated that for the Supreme Court Justices to begin serving, they must swear a second Oath of Office. The original text of this was:

"I, _________, do solemnly swear or affirm that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as _________, according to the best of my abilities and understanding, agreeably to the constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God."

According to these oaths, she should have been impeached decades ago.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

troyt37
You do not like RBG. You have never made a secret of that fact.

Nowhere in either oath does a judge swear to be either a Textualist (or Originalist or Strict Constructionist) OR a proponent of “living document” school of interpretation. Or any of the others, for that matter.

You have simply decided that YOU dislike the latter school of interpretation, so YOU read that language into the oaths. In that sense, you are a poster child for interpretive activism.
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 12:49 pm
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13314 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 12:49 pm to
What does support and defend the Constitution of the United States mean to you? Does that mean support and defend what you think it says? Support and defend what it should say? Support and defend what I am going to pretend it says?

Do you see why trying to have an honest discussion with a liar is a waste of time?
Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
35952 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 12:56 pm to
Holmes's opinion in Buck vs. Bell is unconscionable.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

What does support and defend the Constitution of the United States mean to you?
To me, it means applying the terms of the Constitution as fairly and impartially as is possible.

Personally, I think that Textualism is usually the best way do that. Proponents of other schools of thought are equally-certain that “support and defense” can best be accomplished by applying the broad principles underlying the document in cases of ambiguity.

Neither approach is inherently right or wrong, and a proponents of either approach is not evil just because he or she sees the matter differently.
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13314 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

Neither approach is inherently right or wrong, and a proponents of either approach is not evil just because he or she sees the matter differently.


bullshite. When you manufacture a right to abortion in the Constitution which results in millions of murdered children, inherently wrong doesn’t even scratch the surface.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

bullshite. When you manufacture a right to abortion in the Constitution which results in millions of murdered children, inherently wrong doesn’t even scratch the surface.
Can you even see that you are arguing wholly from emotion?

A jurist MUST separate his analysis from his emotion, or he should find another line of work. As Holmes said, his job is to apply the concrete law, not to do some abstract justice.

AGAIN, I agree that Roe was a result-driven opinion, and I would have ruled differently.

The fact that the Constitution probably SHOULD include a “right to privacy” does not mean that the Drafters had the foresight to include one. Even if it DID include such a guarantee, inclusion of abortion rights in a “right to privacy” was a stretch.
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 1:13 pm
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13314 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

Can you even see that you are arguing wholly from emotion?


Right. The fact that had the justices used what the Constitution actually says would have saved millions of lives is an emotional argument. You bet.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

The fact that had the justices used what the Constitution actually says would have saved millions of lives is an emotional argument.
Yes, it is.

Because you are not looking at the substantive legal analysis of the ruling, but rather at the end results.

That is what the Ideological- and Judicial Left do.

And you are so emotional that you do not even see you are doing it.
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 1:25 pm
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
23965 posts
Posted on 2/23/20 at 1:24 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/9/21 at 1:16 am
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