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Started By
Message
re: If He Needs to, Can Obama Successfully Claim "Presidential Immunity" For His Crimes?
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:41 am to jimmy the leg
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:41 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Why lie?
I did not
quote:
Murder
Jurisdiction, as I pointed out, is the issue.
The question remains
quote:
How did this apply, specifically?
quote:
Murder
Again, we're talking about jurisdiction.
2
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:45 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Again, we're talking about jurisdiction.
Laws of War.
The pathway exists.
You are wrong.
You are also ignorant when it comes to the UCMJ.
Just admit it.
Oh…and you still have yet to answer my question.
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:47 am to SlowFlowPro
The following simply requires a yes or no answer:
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
This post was edited on 7/22/25 at 9:48 am
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:49 am to Lsut81
quote:
Called this yesterday, it would get swept under the rug of Presidential Immunity somehow
Of course, they'll try. But my small understanding is that it covers actions taken in office basically necessary to run the country and protect citizens (war) etc
In a situation where you're intentionally breaking the law and plotting against a sitting president at one point, then I dont think he's covered.
He can't walk up to Trump and stability him, and claim immunity. Same situation, he committed multiple felonies and conspired to do so.
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:51 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
You deflected with some bullshite MAGA comment while providing a non-answer.
I gave an answer.
You dishonestly selectively edited the quote to remove it.
I said:
quote:
No. I'm saying that was the position of MAGA a few months ago (see: "was argued"...I didn't make that argument. I argued there should always be judicial oversight).
You quoted:
quote:
No. I'm saying that was the position of MAGA a few months ago
The full version of what I said has my opinion. The question, now, is why you intentionally left it out and then lied about what I said.
quote:
You chose neither (cowardice).
I chose clarification based on your prior dishonesty (see above)
The option for you to answer is still available.
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:52 am to SlowFlowPro
The following simply requires a yes or no answer:
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:52 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Laws of War.
Now we've come full circle on you not answering. I'll ask, again:
How did this apply, specifically? Cite the relevant portions of the code and the contemporary statuses/decisions/behaviors that apply.
quote:
You are also ignorant when it comes to the UCMJ.
Just admit it.
This is your opportunity to show that. Answer the question above to attempt it. It's your assertion, so I'm sure you can back it up, right?
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:53 am to SlowFlowPro
The following simply requires a yes or no answer:
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:53 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
Again, are you asking for my opinion or the current legal standard?
The answer is different for the 2 scenarios. Which are you asking? You still haven't clarified (this is now the 3rd request)
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:53 am to SlowFlowPro
The following simply requires a yes or no answer:
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:55 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Do you believe that Americans can be arbitrarily labeled as enemies by the President, and killed (murdered) via orders from the President to members of the US military with no accountability or culpability for the President?
In terms of the current legal standards, he can. This power is only being strengthened in this second Trump administration.
I don't agree with those standards.
So which are we discussing? This is the 4th time you've been asked
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:58 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Do you believe
Is what I asked.
So, to be clear, you are of the opinion that there should be an avenue in which to charge Obama with murder?
Is that correct?
Posted on 7/22/25 at 9:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This power is only being strengthened in this second Trump administration.
What American citizen did Trump order the US Military to kill?
Posted on 7/22/25 at 10:04 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
So, to be clear, you are of the opinion that there should be an avenue in which to charge Obama with murder?
Technically the drone pilots would be charged with murder.
Obama's authority to give that command should have been ruled illegal, however. That's the legal extent of his culpability, for various reasons.
Posted on 7/22/25 at 10:06 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
What American citizen did Trump order the US Military to kill?
None, yet.
That, again, is irrelevant to a discussion of legal authority and governmental powers.
Saying Trump's admin is arguing and gaining the legal authority to act in a way is not arguing he has acted pursuant to that authority in that manner.
Posted on 7/22/25 at 10:09 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Technically the drone pilots would be charged with murder.
Fair enough.
Is that due to the fact that it was an American that was murdered?
Where would you draw the line?
Are other acts of following orders by the U.S. Military that lead to death(s) not also murder?
I say no.
What do you say?
Posted on 7/22/25 at 10:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That, again, is irrelevant to a discussion of legal authority and governmental powers.
As CiC.
Whom else is under the legal banner of the UCMJ where you feels this applies?
quote:
Saying Trump's admin is arguing and gaining the legal authority to act in a way is not arguing he has acted pursuant to that authority in that manner.
As it relates to the UCMJ?
How so?
This post was edited on 7/22/25 at 10:13 am
Posted on 7/22/25 at 10:12 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Are other acts of following orders by the U.S. Military that lead to death(s) not also murder?
What is the relevance to a non-military matter?
You're on this diversion and still haven't answered the basic jurisdiction question, yet.
Again
quote:
Obama's authority to give that command should have been ruled illegal, however. That's the legal extent of his culpability, for various reasons.
One of those reasons is jurisdiction.
Posted on 7/22/25 at 10:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
One of those reasons is jurisdiction.
I gave you the pathway for jurisdiction. You are choosing to ignore it because it undermines your stance.
That is a you issue.
As for:
quote:
Obama's authority to give that command should have been ruled illegal, however. That's the legal extent of his culpability, for various reasons.
Various reasons?
What “reasons” would allow for a President to order the premeditated (planned) murder of a U.S. citizen?
Posted on 7/22/25 at 10:18 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Whom else is under the legal banner of the UCMJ where you feels this applies?
This is defined in the UCMJ
The CIC is a civilian and not subject to the UCMJ
Any wartime provision is not only irrelevant (as there was no such wartime to trigger the status), but also ignores the CIC's role in defining what all of these words mean, even the UCMJ.
Further, the "Unified Executive" defines all of these terms at his will/pleasure. This authority has been hyper-inflated since January 17, 2025. So if Obama declared Russia to be an enemy per intel statutes/regs, then he has unfettered ability to do so. He can interpret any intel he receives how he wishes and order the agencies under his command to act, without possibly even judicial oversight.
All of these actions are core Executive functions, also, which the Supreme Court has declared gives him absolute immunity from prosecution.
Further, all of those acting under him per his orders have almost assuredly qualified immunity.
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