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re: I want to hear from the Agnostics. What will the secular world eventually evolve into?
Posted on 3/12/21 at 10:38 am to monsterballads
Posted on 3/12/21 at 10:38 am to monsterballads
Your claim asserts that morality is simply a set of chemical reactions designed to pass on our genetic code. The only logical conclusion from this is that morality is not real, but imagined and thus relative. Go back to my previous post where I said atheism is ultimately materialism. You're proving my point.
If we can't trust our belief-forming faculties to tell us the truth about morality, why should we trust them to tell us the truth about anything, including science? If our cognitive faculties only tell us what we need to survive, not what is true, why trust them about anything at all?
If we can't trust our belief-forming faculties to tell us the truth about morality, why should we trust them to tell us the truth about anything, including science? If our cognitive faculties only tell us what we need to survive, not what is true, why trust them about anything at all?
1
Posted on 3/12/21 at 10:52 am to monsterballads
quote:
This is silly, fwiw. We know murder is wrong because of empathy that is origin to our species.
Why did the Romans throw Christians to the lions for sport if the concept that murder is wrong is self evident?
Posted on 3/12/21 at 11:02 am to jcaz
quote:
And even after they are married, NO CONDOMS OR BIRTH CONTROL!
Do you know the reason why the Catholic Church forbids artificial contraception?
It's actually extremely consistent with Christian ideals, both intellectually and morally. It's not just some arbitrary, prudish rule cooked-up by Victorian-era geezers.
But yeah, it's a difficult pill for a lot of people to swallow.
This post was edited on 3/12/21 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 3/12/21 at 11:07 am to monsterballads
quote:
If I kill fred with a stone, fred can't help the group kill an animal and survive.
I’ll repeat an earlier post that nobody pushing herd morality wanted to respond to for some reason.
quote:
If this is simply herd morality why should we let babies with defects live? By evolutionary standards it's bad. There's a chance they'll procreate, passing on defective genes. Even if we sterilized them they'll command more resources than a normal, healthy baby. In the wild they're typically abandoned if not outright killed. That's Darwin, that's nature, that's science, that's evolution, and that's exactly what we should do if our morality is really just a utilitarian tool with no goal other than furthering the species.
This post was edited on 3/12/21 at 11:08 am
Posted on 3/12/21 at 11:24 am to Revelator
quote:
The Aztecs didn’t think it was wrong while offering up human sacrifices to their God.
Why didn't your God tell them about himself instead of letting them murder each other and go to Hell?
Posted on 3/12/21 at 11:27 am to Esquire
quote:
Why didn't your God tell them about himself instead of letting them murder each other and go to Hell?
How do you know he didn’t ?
Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
19 [b]For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.[/b]
This post was edited on 3/12/21 at 11:29 am
Posted on 3/12/21 at 11:35 am to Revelator
quote:
How do you know he didn’t ?
Do you have an example of Christianity popping up out of nowhere without being introduced by a different civilization after Jesus did it?
Posted on 3/12/21 at 12:08 pm to Esquire
quote:
Do you have an example of Christianity popping up out of nowhere without being introduced by a different civilization after Jesus did it?
Thats not your original question
Posted on 3/12/21 at 1:46 pm to Revelator
quote:
Thats not your original question
It would provide some proof to your claim that everybody already knows to accept Jesus Christ as their savior or burn in hell for eternity. Even the ones that never heard of him.
Posted on 3/12/21 at 1:55 pm to Esquire
quote:
I t would provide some proof to your claim that everybody already knows to accept Jesus Christ as their savior or burn in hell for eternity. Even the ones that never heard of him
That’s a mischaracterization of what I said.
The Bible says that creation itself bares witness that there is a God and they are without excuse for unbelief.
I believe that if a person acknowledges God and seeks him, no matter the era, God will find a way to reveal himself. That might be by a missionary, literature, a radio broadcast, a tv program, or if the person is outside of civilization, an angel, vision or the like.
Remember that many souls died before Jesus died on the cross, but the Bible states as it did with Abraham, his faith was counted unto him as righteousness. Others could have that same faith.
Posted on 3/12/21 at 2:09 pm to Knartfocker
quote:You would think someone who’s smart enough to realize that there is no absolute truth, would also realize that absolute truth probably isn’t found in the Bible.
That's the point. On what basis is his own judgement absolute? What if someone has an opposite judgement? Who is more absolute?
If you think the absolute truth on morality if found in the Bible, then that’s your opinion, and it’s not any more valid than other people’s opinions on morality.
You’re really going to sit here and say that morality is subjective, but Christianity isn’t?
This post was edited on 3/12/21 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 3/12/21 at 2:30 pm to NashvilleTider
quote:Come on man. The baby really had no eyes and then had eyes after the fact? You would think this would be on the news
Every word is true
Posted on 3/12/21 at 3:12 pm to Peepdip
quote:
You’re really going to sit here and say that morality is subjective, but Christianity isn’t?
That's not at all what I argued. Try again.
quote:
You would think someone who’s smart enough to realize that there is no absolute truth, would also realize that absolute truth probably isn’t found in the Bible.
Is it true that nothing is absolutely true?
If there's no absolute truth, there can be no ethics (and by extension, no morality). Everything is equalized if there is no standard. It doesn't matter what happens because everything "is". There are no value judgements and everything is meaningless.
And if everything is meaningless, then your opinion must also be meaningless.
It's impossible to live your life as if the good is subjective.
quote:
If you think the absolute truth on morality if found in the Bible, then that’s your opinion, and it’s not any more valid than other people’s opinions on morality.
Wrong. See above.
You are assuming absolutes in order to disprove absolutes.
This post was edited on 3/12/21 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 3/12/21 at 3:30 pm to Esquire
quote:
Why didn't your God tell them about himself instead of letting them murder each other and go to Hell?
This is the type of question that is routinely asked by atheists as a,” got ya” question. It’s the,” what about the man in the jungle who never heard the gospel” type question.
Here is a possible explanation and just is one of many that shows its impossible to know, without the mind of God.
What if God, in his foreknowledge already knows the souls of those who would reject him, regardless if they heard the gospel or not, so he placed those souls geographically in locations that are absent of the gospel?
You can’t discount explanations like this out of hand.
Posted on 3/12/21 at 3:36 pm to Revelator
quote:yes, God sends non believers to terrible places to punish them. Every starving kid is just an atheist, and God predicted it!
What if God, in his foreknowledge already knows the souls of those who would reject him, regardless if they heard the gospel or not, so he placed those souls geographically in locations that are absent of the gospel?
You can’t discount explanations like this out of hand
Atheists can’t rule these sort of theories out lol
Posted on 3/12/21 at 3:41 pm to Knartfocker
quote:scientifically and mathematically there are absolute truths. As far as ethics go, it’s still pretty subjective. Which doesn’t diminish the importance of doing what one believes to be the right thing.
Is it true that nothing is absolutely true?
Your argument is that there is no “right thing” without religion to define what’s right and wrong. It’s a good philosophical discussion, but in the end it means absolutely nothing, because the Bible was written by human beings who’s opinion on what is right and what is wrong, is just as subjective as yours and mine.
This post was edited on 3/12/21 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 3/12/21 at 3:42 pm to Knartfocker
I think there is a god, it's an energy that can communicate across space and time. It doesn't intervene in mankinds affairs, but can communicate with man if man knows how to listen.
I think there's truth in the bible, but the bible isn't all true. An assembly of God preacher told me that once, and I feel it's correct. The Book of Job is a hard one for those who believe all bible stories are fact.
Spiritual and non spiritual people will never agree, it's a waste of time trying to find that common ground.
I think there's truth in the bible, but the bible isn't all true. An assembly of God preacher told me that once, and I feel it's correct. The Book of Job is a hard one for those who believe all bible stories are fact.
Spiritual and non spiritual people will never agree, it's a waste of time trying to find that common ground.
Posted on 3/12/21 at 3:46 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:I would loosely define spirituality as the ability to appreciate art, beauty, and to live life within the confines of love and empathy. I don’t think spirituality has anything to do with what your religious beliefs are. Religion can definitely promote and encourage spirituality, but the two are not tied together.
Spiritual and non spiritual people will never agree, it's a waste of time trying to find that common ground.
Posted on 3/12/21 at 3:48 pm to Revelator
quote:
What if God, in his foreknowledge already knows the souls of those who would reject him, regardless if they heard the gospel or not, so he placed those souls geographically in locations that are absent of the gospel?
Gotta disagree here. This theory completely disregards free will, without which Christianity doesn't hold muster.
The jungle kid scenario is tricky because there really is no answer that we can come up with as humans. But while it doesn't disprove the existence of God, it's a scenario that many Christians can't agree on a solution for. And because of that, atheists bring it up.
You can refer them to the works of the Church Fathers or smart Protestants, but the atheist usually never approaches discourse with the goal of clarification. A good counter-argument would be to bring up how they know right from wrong if no one ever told them about it. Ultimately, the believer and the atheist will have to agree that we're on the same footing in this scenario: we're both relying on some form of faith to try and answer the question.
Posted on 3/12/21 at 3:51 pm to Knartfocker
quote:
Gotta disagree here. This theory completely disregards free will, without which Christianity doesn't hold muster.
Not at all. I said God knew in his foreknowledge they would reject him by their own freewill, regardless if they heard the gospel or not. God isn’t forcing his will on them.
Plus, you do realize there is a large group of Christians who reject the idea of freewill anyway right.
This post was edited on 3/12/21 at 3:54 pm
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