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Message
re: Definitive #Obamagate Timeline (8PM 3/17 Update)
Posted on 3/8/17 at 4:22 pm to joshnorris14
Posted on 3/8/17 at 4:22 pm to joshnorris14
I think what happened is the following:
1) Our IC has been monitoring Russian agents (as they should) for a long time. Keep in mind that "Russian agent" would apply to pretty much ANYONE even loosely connected to the Russian government.
2) The Russians were trying to get close to the presidential campaigns, as I am sure they've always done. They could be doing this for any number of reasons, probably mostly to gain intelligence about the candidates and their foreign policy stances.
3) NSA, in routine surveillance, picked up one of these guys talking to Manafort or Page or someone on the campaign.
4) This got back to the FBI who began looking into it. They worried that perhaps the Russians were trying to influence the election. As a result, they launched a counter-intelligence investigation. I suspect, more than anything, that the FBI was worried that the campaign was taking money from Russia.
5) At some point they went to the DoJ and got a FISA warrant to monitor a computer in Trump Tower. The request was turned down twice, according to the BBC, but was approved on the third try. They suspected this computer was accepting payments from a Russian bank.
6) The FBI found nothing with the computer and dropped that part of the investigation. (Turns out the computer was a normal e-mail server, there were no banking transactions or any other contact with Russia).
7) This was only a few weeks before the election, so rumors began swirling and Hillary herself got wind of it. This is when she ratcheted up her "Russian" rhetoric.
8) It didn't work and Trump wins the election.
9) Obama was going to be in office until the 20th, so he had well over a month to continue monitoring. This is when they caught Flynn on an NSA intercept talking to the Russian ambassador. Keep in mind that there is absolutely NOTHING strange about an incoming national security adviser talking to an ambassador.
10) This conversation was leaked to the press by someone in the Obama administration -- probably someone very close to Obama himself. Why? Because only a few people would have access to this TS/SCI material.
11) 17 days before he left office, Obama amended EO 12333 to make it so all NSA wiretaps got spread to the other intelligence agencies. This is very strange and Obama has never explained himself. Most likely he did it to cover his arse so that his leakers would not be caught.
12) Trump and Pence by this time were sick of all the "Russia" talk and questioned Flynn about what his conversation was about. Something went wrong (Flynn lied) and they fired him. (I think Flynn was just a sacrificial lamb in an attempt to make the retarded conspiracy theory disappear).
13) Trump gets in office and has his people look into the rumors. They found out that indeed there was a FISA request for Trump Tower. This makes Trump mad and he tweets (incorrectly) that "Obama ordered" the wiretap. In fact, Obama didn't order anything, but he certainly knew about it.
1) Our IC has been monitoring Russian agents (as they should) for a long time. Keep in mind that "Russian agent" would apply to pretty much ANYONE even loosely connected to the Russian government.
2) The Russians were trying to get close to the presidential campaigns, as I am sure they've always done. They could be doing this for any number of reasons, probably mostly to gain intelligence about the candidates and their foreign policy stances.
3) NSA, in routine surveillance, picked up one of these guys talking to Manafort or Page or someone on the campaign.
4) This got back to the FBI who began looking into it. They worried that perhaps the Russians were trying to influence the election. As a result, they launched a counter-intelligence investigation. I suspect, more than anything, that the FBI was worried that the campaign was taking money from Russia.
5) At some point they went to the DoJ and got a FISA warrant to monitor a computer in Trump Tower. The request was turned down twice, according to the BBC, but was approved on the third try. They suspected this computer was accepting payments from a Russian bank.
6) The FBI found nothing with the computer and dropped that part of the investigation. (Turns out the computer was a normal e-mail server, there were no banking transactions or any other contact with Russia).
7) This was only a few weeks before the election, so rumors began swirling and Hillary herself got wind of it. This is when she ratcheted up her "Russian" rhetoric.
8) It didn't work and Trump wins the election.
9) Obama was going to be in office until the 20th, so he had well over a month to continue monitoring. This is when they caught Flynn on an NSA intercept talking to the Russian ambassador. Keep in mind that there is absolutely NOTHING strange about an incoming national security adviser talking to an ambassador.
10) This conversation was leaked to the press by someone in the Obama administration -- probably someone very close to Obama himself. Why? Because only a few people would have access to this TS/SCI material.
11) 17 days before he left office, Obama amended EO 12333 to make it so all NSA wiretaps got spread to the other intelligence agencies. This is very strange and Obama has never explained himself. Most likely he did it to cover his arse so that his leakers would not be caught.
12) Trump and Pence by this time were sick of all the "Russia" talk and questioned Flynn about what his conversation was about. Something went wrong (Flynn lied) and they fired him. (I think Flynn was just a sacrificial lamb in an attempt to make the retarded conspiracy theory disappear).
13) Trump gets in office and has his people look into the rumors. They found out that indeed there was a FISA request for Trump Tower. This makes Trump mad and he tweets (incorrectly) that "Obama ordered" the wiretap. In fact, Obama didn't order anything, but he certainly knew about it.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 3/8/17 at 4:24 pm to AUstar
If that's what happened they broke the law.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 5:56 pm to joshnorris14
New reporting being done by Circa, which is an outfit ran by former Washington Times reporters. They talked to intelligence officials off-the-record and have confirmed some information already out there. It's worth a read. LINK
Basically what they're saying is that the FBI was already conducting surveillance on Russian operatives before Trump was even in the picture. During that investigation they got wind of Chris Steele's "dossier" and decided to try and corroborate it. This means this whole "Trump-Russia" narrative was started by Hillary Clinton's campaign team (Steele worked for Hillary).
They also confirmed with their sources that a FISA warrant was indeed granted for Trump Tower in October and that it was a very narrow request to spy on a specific server. As other reports have already said, they found nothing on that computer.
As for Michael Flynn, they reported this:
According to them, whenever someone with a top-tier security clearance (Flynn) is talking with foreign officials, it can be monitored without a warrant. And this is routine with anyone in that position (Generals, CIA officials, etc.). If this report is correct, then that means that the crime here is not the tapping of Flynn, but the fact those taps were leaked to the press.
As for the tapping of Trump Tower, it was legal as well. The only question I have is did the FBI overreact to the Steele dossier? Was there any political motivation at all in their decision to tap Trump's computers? Would they have tapped Hillary's campaign over some fake dossier floating around?
Basically what they're saying is that the FBI was already conducting surveillance on Russian operatives before Trump was even in the picture. During that investigation they got wind of Chris Steele's "dossier" and decided to try and corroborate it. This means this whole "Trump-Russia" narrative was started by Hillary Clinton's campaign team (Steele worked for Hillary).
They also confirmed with their sources that a FISA warrant was indeed granted for Trump Tower in October and that it was a very narrow request to spy on a specific server. As other reports have already said, they found nothing on that computer.
As for Michael Flynn, they reported this:
quote:
The officials also strongly disputed that the FBI’s intercepts of conversations in December between soon-to-to-be U.S. National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak were part of a continuing Trump-focused national security investigation. In fact, they were part of a long-established special intelligence program in which the FBI is routinely permitted to review intercepts of Russian embassy officials.
Americans are often incidentally intercepted, and the FBI has authority to review those conversations without a specific warrant when they involve national security matters. Flynn fell into that category in part because he had a security clearance, the sources said.
According to them, whenever someone with a top-tier security clearance (Flynn) is talking with foreign officials, it can be monitored without a warrant. And this is routine with anyone in that position (Generals, CIA officials, etc.). If this report is correct, then that means that the crime here is not the tapping of Flynn, but the fact those taps were leaked to the press.
As for the tapping of Trump Tower, it was legal as well. The only question I have is did the FBI overreact to the Steele dossier? Was there any political motivation at all in their decision to tap Trump's computers? Would they have tapped Hillary's campaign over some fake dossier floating around?
Posted on 3/9/17 at 1:23 am to AUstar
So no mention of President Obama specifically ordering wiretaps to tap Trump to sway a political election?
Posted on 3/9/17 at 1:26 am to joshnorris14
quote:
If that's what happened they broke the law.
The leakers broke the law yes. At this point there's no evidence saying Obama did anything illegal.
Posted on 3/9/17 at 1:32 am to AUstar
quote:
This makes Trump mad and he tweets (incorrectly) that "Obama ordered" the wiretap. In fact, Obama didn't order anything, but he certainly knew about it.
If this turns out to be true, it would be hilarious if in a moment of sweet irony Obama sues Trump for libel and wins. i would laugh my arse off.
Posted on 3/9/17 at 7:12 am to Tiger Tracker
House Intel CMTE. gonna hold Trumps feet to the fire!!
Kudos to them.
Kudos to them.
Posted on 3/9/17 at 7:44 am to Tiger Tracker
That will never happen my man. Obama is in this up to his neck. He may may not hang for it, but there will be many who do. And Obama just wont this to go away as quick as possible. But there will be so much more of Obama's unlawfulness come to light over the next 4 yrs that he has a lot to deal with right now. He has to get Trump delegitimized as much as possible. Can you imagine the sight of the Frist Black President slapped in cuffs and put in jail.
Posted on 3/9/17 at 7:59 am to AUstar
I would add, the USA...that being BHO, HRC and their ilk, were the ones sabre rattling Putin in the event HRC was elected and all this stuff blew up. They were running a high stakes gambit that didn't come to fruition because HRC was defeated. What we are seeing is the littered junk on the IT highway. The BIG story for me is the high stakes head fake that was being employed by the former Administration that was heating up and quickly, very quickly settled when DJT won the election.
This is my story, my black helicopter and I'm sticking to it.
This is my story, my black helicopter and I'm sticking to it.
Posted on 3/9/17 at 8:37 am to wfallstiger
Another question is how did anyone know there was a server connected to the Russian banks to begin with? And what that server was allegedly doing?
Who leaked the existence of the server and investigation to Hillary?
Who leaked the existence of the server and investigation to Hillary?
Posted on 3/9/17 at 8:38 am to wfallstiger
Why hasn't trump addressed any of the aggressive shite Russia's been pulling since inauguration?
Posted on 3/9/17 at 10:43 am to AUstar
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 7:54 am
Posted on 3/9/17 at 10:46 am to AgentOrange71
Maybe because he doesn't see his role as President of the Globe but rather President of the United States. And he has, I told you things settled and settled quickly, very quickly once elected....just because you don't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen
This post was edited on 3/9/17 at 10:55 am
Posted on 3/9/17 at 10:53 am to antibarner
Who knows what stuff lurks in the shadows. All I know is it ain't what they wish for us to believe, in my view. Putin was an easy target and some tried to use for their advantage...I am not a Putin apologist as some might allege, that is too easy to be so dismissive. Let us remember it was OUR POTUS who interjected the USA into an Israeli election and we KNOW that but I guess that is different...we have NO/ZIP/NADA proof that the Russians did same to our election....we pulled them into the election, they were a front, cover for the nefarious dealings of others..my black helicopter has been busy
Posted on 3/9/17 at 11:01 am to antibarner
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 7:54 am
Posted on 3/9/17 at 11:50 am to antibarner
quote:
Another question is how did anyone know there was a server connected to the Russian banks to begin with? And what that server was allegedly doing?
Who leaked the existence of the server and investigation to Hillary?
People in the private sector. A guy that worked for a Level 1 Internet backbone provider routinely reviewed DNS logs as part of his job to track malware and botnets. He came across some strange pings that had the name "Trump" in them and noticed them communicating with a Russian bank. Being the partisan he was, he decided to investigate.
He saved the DNS logs to a file and sent them to his colleagues at other companies and university research departments to get their take on what was going on. Eventually these DNS logs made their way around the Internet.
"The Intercept" (online magazine) got wind of the logs and investigated. They didn't even run a story because they thought the whole thing was BS as they had no way of even proving the logs were authentic. Keep in mind that Greenwald (owner of The Intercept) is no fan of Trump.
At some point the FBI got wind of these Internet rumors and investigated themselves. They found nothing at all suspicious and concluded it was a Trump e-mail server sending spam mail about hotel deals.
Hillary tweeted about it in Oct. but she got her information from a Slate article that was done about it (the Slate article was published the same day she tweeted).
So, basically what we have is the FBI investigating Trump before an election because of what amounts to 4chan bullshite.
Posted on 3/9/17 at 12:32 pm to AgentOrange71
quote:I thought none of this would go on after Trump got in the WH....
Why hasn't trump addressed any of the aggressive shite Russia's been pulling since inauguration?
Posted on 3/9/17 at 12:46 pm to AgentOrange71
quote:
Why hasn't trump addressed any of the aggressive shite Russia's been pulling since inauguration?
Because he's a easily manipulated child who Vlad moved on like a bitch.
Posted on 3/9/17 at 12:47 pm to AUstar
quote:
So, basically what we have is the FBI investigating Trump before an election because of what amounts to 4chan bull shite.
The New York FBI office was investigating that hacky Clinton book to try and prove WND or Newsmax level allegations true.
Posted on 3/9/17 at 1:07 pm to TT9
quote:
House Intel CMTE. gonna hold Trumps feet to the fire!!
Kudos to them.
Good because trump is right.
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