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Message
re: Cool Video Describing Ancient Christian Liturgy
Posted on 4/24/25 at 9:02 am to Champagne
Posted on 4/24/25 at 9:02 am to Champagne
quote:
In Jesus's day, cousins were referred to as brothers and sisters.
Not even true. Once again, its only a Catholic thing, in order to protect the deity of Mary
quote:
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother
Not cousins
quote:
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother
Same guys, still not cousins
quote:
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Yet again, brothers in the NT, walking with Jesus himself, arent cousins
quote:
And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:
More proof that Catholics are lying to you
quote:
Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
Different set of brothers. Still not cousins
quote:
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us?
And yet, these supposedly are just cousins. Even tho Mary was their mother. Mary, who wed a carpenter. Cant be more specific than that in regards to which Mary had her own children with her
And heres some non-Biblical proof for you
quote:
The James Ossuary is a 1st-century limestone box that was used for containing the bones of the dead. An Aramaic inscription meaning "Jacob (James), son of Joseph, brother of Yeshua" is cut into one side of the box.
quote:
The first-century origin of the ossuary is not in question
quote:
The cursive Aramaic script is consistent with first-century lettering. The inscription was not incised with modern tools, as it contains no chemical elements not available in the ancient world.
quote:
The Israel Geological Survey submitted the ossuary to a variety of scientific tests, which determined that the limestone of the ossuary had a patina or sheen consistent with being in a cave for many centuries. The same type of patina covers the incised lettering of the inscription as the rest of the surface. It is claimed that, if the inscription were recent, this would not be the case
quote:
A later study with a different isotope found that the d13C values of the surface patina and the inscription patina were identical. An archaeometric analysis by Amnon Rosenfeld, Howard Randall Feldman and Wolfgang Elisabeth Krumbein strengthened the authenticity contention of the ossuary. It found that patina on the ossuary surface matched that in the engravings, and that microfossils in the inscription seemed naturally deposited
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Posted on 4/24/25 at 10:00 am to RescueT
quote:
Orthodox left the church for many reason. The biggest one is the filioque, which is funny because even inside the Orthodox Church it’s argued.
The Orthodox Church did not "leave," the Western Church made innovations outside of an Ecumenical Council one of which was use of the filioque. I would challenge you to point out which Orthodox Church uses the filioque.
quote:
The Holy Spirit does proceed from the Father AND The Son.
Not according to John 15:26
quote:
What is nice is The Catholic Church will acknowledge the sacrament of the orthodox and allow them to take communion. The same isn’t offered in return.
To do so would imply a union that does not exist, unfortunately.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 10:02 am to Snipe
quote:
Sorry that's not what I said. But I don't fault you for not understanding I consider both East and West to be the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. One true bride of Christ Jesus.
I don't disagree with that, however, what you said was:
quote:
The Catholic Church has it and the rest do not have it, or have modified and watered it down to make it palatable to the average person who wants to have their cake and eat it too. Watered down Truth is "Not Truth."
That's not exactly the same as what you're saying now.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 10:03 am to Knartfocker
quote:
Simply not true. The only "orthodox" that accept the filioque are schismatics.
Maybe he's counting Uniates.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 10:05 am to RobbBobb
quote:
Maybe you try reading the actual Bible for yourself? When Christ speaks on communion, the term 'wine' is not used. He says 'fruit of the vine'. Which is exactly what grape juice it
Your ignorance is astounding in this thread
So then you are saying that grape juice is acceptable and that's what the Lord was talking about?
Like all the grape juice that gets consumed at Passover meals?
At what point did the early Christians decide to switch the Eucharist to wine instead of grape juice and why?
Did the Lord turn water into grape juice at Cana as well?
My ignorance is astounding? That's rich. Get you a mirror, Ace.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 10:07 am to SkiUtah420
quote:
The Ted Talk and Rock Concert in the Arena is not the way my brothers
Mega churches are the extreme of Non Denominational. Most simply preach from the Bible.
I have several fundamental and obvious issues with the Catholic Church. For starters (and recency): Jesus Christ sacrificed himself for all of us, taking upon the past, present, and future sins of humanity.
The veil was torn… yet the Catholic Church says “no thanks, throw the ‘veil’ back up and add several layers of liturgy, idol worship, tradition, and performative chanting back to separate us from God again.”
Posted on 4/24/25 at 10:21 am to SkiUtah420
quote:
How do you reconcile that we practice the same "rituals" as the Apostles practices in 34 AD? Last time I check there was no Fog Machine in the upper room when the 12 received the Holy Spirit on Pentacost.
I’m sorry, I missed where the early apostles prayed through Mary’s (and other saint’s) intercession, confessional/absolution (this is indefensible tbh), praying souls through to heaven, the church hierarchy and ornate garments.
Nothing in your video was any different than a non-denominational church’s service proceedings, to be honest. Prayer, gathering, worship, Eucharist/communion.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 11:10 am to RescueT
quote:This is always so difficult for most Catholics to wrap your minds around: The Orthodox patriarchates did not leave the church.
Orthodox left the church for many reason.
Period. End of story. You don't get to make up history on the fly because it's all you've known in your echo chamber. With the exception of one Catholic, not a single one of you so far has gotten anywhere remotely close to the facts. One out of 25 of you. Guys that's pathetic.
quote:Absolute, unadulterated nonsense. Following up your first sentence with this outright lie from your echo chamber tells me all I need to know: you're #26 on the TD Catholic list who's either cluelessly indoctrinated, lying, or both. The Orthodox church is in no way "arguing" about the filioque. She took care of that heresy 1000 years ago and we are in full communion with each other. Stop lying.
The biggest one is the filioque, which is funny because even inside the Orthodox Church it’s argued.
quote:More lying or misinformation. We don't not acknowledge the Pope because of the filioque heresy. It is it's own heresy, while Papal primacy is another. Another Catholic who knows nothing about Apostolic church history.
Of course the orthodox will say that the Pope of the time changed this and that’s why they don’t acknowledge the Pope.
quote:You should've said, "between the 4 other patriarchates and Rome."
There were already fractures happening before this in the east and the west.
quote:There's that disdainful haughtiness we all know and expect from the average uneducated Catholic. You all speak in a manner such as this, then you put a pope in power that espouses the virtues of communism and gay men having sex with each other, child sexual rape cover up, and then you wonder why the majority of Christianity is abrasive towards you and attribute it to world Christians having this strange obsession with the people who live behind Vatican walls. The only ones obsessed are you Catholics — we're all watching the hypocrisy with clear lenses.
What is nice is The Catholic Church will acknowledge the sacrament of the orthodox and allow them to take communion.
There are very few things as repulsive as a man who speaks on something of which he obviously knows nothing about:
quote:My smug, Catholic guy, you're so lost that you still don't get it: The one, true Apostolic church doesn't look towards Rome to "allow" us to take communion — nor do anything else for that matter. You are so entrenched with your Papal authority that you can't fathom that Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem excommunicated your dear leaders 1000 years ago. We don't need the papacy to allow us to commune. Again, factual history: learn, love it, live it.
What is nice is The Catholic Church will acknowledge the sacrament of the orthodox and allow them to take communion.
quote:Because we are the true Apostolic church. We do not change on a whim. Just like with many protestant church heresies, I for one don't want my church associating with a church that will change with the whims where, from one week to the next when a new leadership is installed, that you can flip 180 degrees on, say, universalism. That's blasphemy, brotha. We excommunicated you 1000 years ago, and we stand on that.
The same isn’t offered in return.
quote:I'm not going to say what God can and cannot do, but I don't see it. Papal supremecy is so embedded and central to your worldview, and there is so much consolidated power, riches, secrets and such behind Vatican walls that I don't ever see your man-gods ever letting that go. Then the filioque heresy and that many, many Catholics will have to get your heart right in order to meet the only Apostolic church halfway — I don't see it happening, but if does, it'll be because the papal primacy heresy has fallen. We will see with who yall let the globalists and purple hairs pick next on what that timeline might be. Another one like Francis or, God forbid, even further left, and I foresee Orthodox parish narthexes filling up even more with Catholic converts — something that never happens the other way around.
I would love to see the two churches rejoin as One church.
Come down off your haughty high horse, Catholics, and educate yourselves. You will not debase and defame the one true Apostolic church and not get checked. Orthodoxy now, Orthodoxy forever.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 11:32 am to mudshuvl05
quote:
Orthodoxy now, Orthodoxy forever.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 11:49 am to Sev09
Coming from the Orthodox corner, Jesus said HE would build his Church, not Martin Luther.
I use this factual analogy: The disciples went and preached at churches for months, sometimes years at a time, but oftentimes they'd only leave a few chapters in their book of the Bible. The disciples who lived in those churches every day taught the ritualistic practices that are passed down for 2000 years to modern day. God ordained there were more pressing, univeral matters that needed to go into His written word than what incense we should use, but that's why the Apostolic church is built by Christ and why it's so important to be in it: at a minimum, we do the things the disciples taught us to do in worship.
Don't forget that you protestants have a Bible to read because the Apostolic church put it together on God's behalf.
As far as veneration of saints, while Orthodox don't worship Mary like Catholics (nonsense), I'll put it to you this way as far as Orthodoxy goes: if you've ever looked at a picture of a loved one who's passed on and who was a saint if there ever was one, and venerated them through that picture, ever prayed and asked said love one to put a word in to God on your behalf (if even subconsciously), ever looked at a stained glass window in a Protestant church of Mary, saints, etc., a painting of Jesus , and you've experienced spiritual veneration and intercession after seeing them, then you've committed the same grave sin that you accuse Orthodoxy and Catholicism for. You need to go tear down every painting of a cross, of Jesus, of saints, bust out every stained glass window, and never look at a loved one who's gone on with the Lord with any veneration whatsoever, ever again.
We Orthodox venerate our saints (they're yours, too) because they were a part of the church that Christ Himself built from the day of Pentecost and they sacrificed so much to do so. Just like how Protestant grandpa, who was a God fearing, Christ loving man was the one who built your family up and sacrificed so much stirs your emotions when you see a picture of him, so too do Orthodox do with the saints. If that's worshipping grandpa, then guilty as charged, but it's not, nor is it for veneration of the saints.
I use this factual analogy: The disciples went and preached at churches for months, sometimes years at a time, but oftentimes they'd only leave a few chapters in their book of the Bible. The disciples who lived in those churches every day taught the ritualistic practices that are passed down for 2000 years to modern day. God ordained there were more pressing, univeral matters that needed to go into His written word than what incense we should use, but that's why the Apostolic church is built by Christ and why it's so important to be in it: at a minimum, we do the things the disciples taught us to do in worship.
Don't forget that you protestants have a Bible to read because the Apostolic church put it together on God's behalf.
As far as veneration of saints, while Orthodox don't worship Mary like Catholics (nonsense), I'll put it to you this way as far as Orthodoxy goes: if you've ever looked at a picture of a loved one who's passed on and who was a saint if there ever was one, and venerated them through that picture, ever prayed and asked said love one to put a word in to God on your behalf (if even subconsciously), ever looked at a stained glass window in a Protestant church of Mary, saints, etc., a painting of Jesus , and you've experienced spiritual veneration and intercession after seeing them, then you've committed the same grave sin that you accuse Orthodoxy and Catholicism for. You need to go tear down every painting of a cross, of Jesus, of saints, bust out every stained glass window, and never look at a loved one who's gone on with the Lord with any veneration whatsoever, ever again.
We Orthodox venerate our saints (they're yours, too) because they were a part of the church that Christ Himself built from the day of Pentecost and they sacrificed so much to do so. Just like how Protestant grandpa, who was a God fearing, Christ loving man was the one who built your family up and sacrificed so much stirs your emotions when you see a picture of him, so too do Orthodox do with the saints. If that's worshipping grandpa, then guilty as charged, but it's not, nor is it for veneration of the saints.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 12:36 pm to mudshuvl05
Posted on 4/24/25 at 1:12 pm to mudshuvl05
Martin Luther never sought to build his own church, but merely pointed out the same issues I’m highlighting here.
OPs intention was clearly to dunk on Protestants, unaware the irony his source presents: simplicity in corporate gathering, reading, simple sacraments, and worship.
I don’t think your argument of icons (especially artful depictions of Jesus) holds water, as emotional reactions and reminders of your personal savior is not the same as literally bowing/kneeling and praying to the dead to achieve heavenly deeds on your behalf. Again, the veil was torn. It’s finished. Why are you adding back layers of separation and human-invented dogma?
1 Timothy 2:5 actually says “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.”
I understand the history and lineage of the church and that seems to be the primary leg many Catholics stand on to justify these invented practices, but to ignore the changes over time and purely manufactured sacraments is disingenuous.
OPs intention was clearly to dunk on Protestants, unaware the irony his source presents: simplicity in corporate gathering, reading, simple sacraments, and worship.
I don’t think your argument of icons (especially artful depictions of Jesus) holds water, as emotional reactions and reminders of your personal savior is not the same as literally bowing/kneeling and praying to the dead to achieve heavenly deeds on your behalf. Again, the veil was torn. It’s finished. Why are you adding back layers of separation and human-invented dogma?
1 Timothy 2:5 actually says “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.”
I understand the history and lineage of the church and that seems to be the primary leg many Catholics stand on to justify these invented practices, but to ignore the changes over time and purely manufactured sacraments is disingenuous.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 1:35 pm to 62zip
quote:
Did the Lord turn water into grape juice at Cana as well?
My ignorance is astounding? That's rich. Get you a mirror, Ace.
Like I said, youre ignorant, Trying to link a wedding celebration into the sacrament, is despicable. And if you would read the Bible you would see even then Jesus told Mary, "No, its not my time". He felt it wasnt appropriate.
In actual reference to the communion, theres this
quote:
When ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
What? Ye the church of God? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
You alcoholics need to check yourself
Posted on 4/24/25 at 2:06 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
Like I said, youre ignorant, Trying to link a wedding celebration into the sacrament, is despicable.
The Jews, of whom Jesus was one, and early Christians viewed marriage as a sacrament, so...
quote:
And if you would read the Bible you would see even then Jesus told Mary, "No, its not my time". He felt it wasnt appropriate
Yet He honors His mother's request and does it anyway.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 2:45 pm to RescueT
quote:Bruh, you are aware that video you just linked with Fr. Josiah is him explaining why the filoque is wrong? He's answering Lila's question. I watched that whole episode when it came out: Lila is a Catholic whom many of the low iq ideologues like yourself in this thread could learn from.
RescueT
quote:And he brilliantly explains why the Catholic filoque is wrong. There are no disagreements in Orthodoxy on the filoque: it's heresy, hence the 4 patriarchates excommunicating Rome 1000 years ago. I can't with Catholics like yourself: the blockheadedness and blind narcissism coupled with zero education on church history is beyond redemption.
one your most renown “priests” in a tizzy because of the filioque.
Congratulations posting those links to support your claim that the Orthodox church is in some disagreement on the filoque heresy, you just played yourself. You are painfully ignorant of what you speak of, and you just proved it.
quote:The authority is the Orthodox ecumenical council in Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem, not some avowed Marxist behind high Vatican walls where your church spiral begins and ends.
I think most don’t like having authority. By most, I mean 90% of populace. So I get it.
Good luck on your upcoming man-god, hopefully he won't espouse communism and gay sex this time around.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 2:54 pm to mudshuvl05
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/24/25 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 4/24/25 at 2:55 pm to mudshuvl05
Bruh, you’re wrong. You’re trying to rewrite history to slant your views.
Posted on 4/24/25 at 3:08 pm to RobbBobb
quote:
Like I said, youre ignorant, Trying to link a wedding celebration into the sacrament, is despicable. And if you would read the Bible you would see even then Jesus told Mary, "No, its not my time". He felt it wasnt appropriate.
It's rich that some grape juice swilling Protestant would call anyone ignorant. For starters, marriage is a sacrament. Further, He said "My hour has not yet come," which indicates that he felt that it wasn't time for him to perform a miracle not that it was inappropriate. If He felt that it was inappropriate, then he would have said, "I'm not going to do it because it's inappropriate." Big difference. Or are you telling us that the Lord is ignorant?
Thank you for pointing out though that the intercession of the Theotokos can indeed sway Christ to do something.
I also notice you neglected to answer about the Jews having grape juice for Passover and also to explain to us when the early Christians decided to make the switch.
Try harder.
quote:
You alcoholics need to check yourself
Speaking of ignorant...
But yes, partaking of the Eucharist as we are instructed to by the Lord were certainly constitute alcohol abuse.
Thank God we have some late 19th century teetotaling whackjob protestants to save us from ourselves.
I take that back, you aren't ignorant, you are obviously stupid.
Now run along, the grownups are trying to talk here.
This post was edited on 4/24/25 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 4/24/25 at 3:09 pm to RescueT
quote:
I will link a YouTube video of one your most renown “priests” in a tizzy because of the filioque.
Why so disrespectful toward Fr. Josiah?
You think he's not a priest or something?
Posted on 4/24/25 at 3:10 pm to Knartfocker
quote:
Yet He honors His mother's request and does it anyway.
How about that, it's almost like she interceded on behalf of the host.
But I thought intercession wasn't a thing.
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