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Message

why A&M was a huge get and why FSU, WVU, Clemson etc are not.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:00 pm
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:00 pm
I think many here are not understanding why the SEC is so intent on expanding into new markets and just assume that it is about viewers. This is not the case. The real money in athletics at this point is not with the third party TV contracts such as those with CBS and ESPN. Don't get me wrong those contracts do not pay chump change but the real money is with a conference TV network similar to the B1G's.
At this point the Big Ten schools make more per school then any other conference despite their contracts with abc and espn being even close to the size the sec's are. The reason is simple the B1G network.
The B1G is on basic cable and satellite packages throughout B1G country and the nation. For every household that has the channel in a state that has a B1G school they get a premium royalty from the service provider. In non B1G states that get a small royalty. The premium payout is much much more per household and that's why populous states are very important.
Total viewership is not important. I have seen many here say Missouri doesn't get many viewers in St louis and KC watching and it very well could be true. I believe SFP was the main one harping on this. Guess what it doesn't matter. The real money is in the premium royalties not commercials as the B1G has proven. These households will get the SEC network on an extended cable package or satellite the same way they get the B1G network and many of us get the B1G network here in Louisiana. Difference is they would now be that the cable companies in Missouri would be paying the SEC premium royalties.
Many here have said that FSU would be an ideal pick because they are a national brand, great tradition, fit the footprint, etc etc. All of this is true, but FSU is not a good fit to make existing SEC schools money. Yes they would make the SEC money on renegotiated contracts with espn and cbs but not much. They would have to pay for themselves which would be around 20mil and the possibility of bringing anything more then that is low and even if it was more it wouldn't be much more. They also do not add a new state and population base in which the SEC could charge a premium to once the SEC network is created. In the end they bring nothing to the table to make the exsisting SEC schools money.
For the exact reason listed why FSU is not a good fit, A&M is an amazing get for the SEC. Once the Network is created the ability to get premium royalties from the whole state of texas is huge. Its the exact reason i believe the SEC will not look to add TCU. TCU is in the same boat as FSU, they bring shite to the table that could make existing members money.
WVU is a good get but with a population of under 2 million they are not a huge get from a financial standpoint. They fit in the SEC but they do not significantly up the amount that exsisting members will make. If the SEC is truly looking to go to 16 like many believe then they are a really good get, but at 14 they are kinda HO-HUM....barely above average.
Missouri with almost 6 million would be a really good get especially if every conference is expanding to 16. they would significantly increase amount existing members could make in the future.
Another name that has been floated is NC State. Many have said they would be a good fit and they would be correct. Still many have complained that they have only been mediocre in the football in the week ACC and those posters would also be correct. But what NC State brings is a location inside a state with over 9 million people. I do not think people understand how big this is. This is a huge get and would make existing members an arse load of money in the future when a SEC network is created.
Which brings us to the last and biggest jewel of them all....Virginia Tech. Virginia has a population of almost 8 million and growing. This would significantly increase the amount of money a SEC network would make in the future.
To sum it up the best thing the SEC could do would be to add 4 the following teams
1. Texas A&M- adds 24,782,302 households
2. Virginia Tech- adds 7,882,590 households
3. North Carolina State- adds 9,380,884 households
4. Missouri- adds 5,987,580 households
5. West Virginia- adds 1,819,777
also East Carolina could come into play because of the population of NC. South Florida, Clemson, Louisville, and prolly TCU are out because of this.
This is the reason why I believe Slive has repeatedly stated that an expansion would come from new states. I know right now the SEC cant create their own network and nobody on this board knows if expanding will allow the SEC to create a full time network, but in the future the SEC will go this away. there is way way too much money left on the table if you do not. Hope this clears up some of the confusion.
BTW I'm not saying any of these teams are coming here, simply explaining why some schools are great gets and some are not. Kind of the same reason why Rutgers would be a very very good get for the B1G and why Syracuse was a very good get for the ACC in football also.
edited to add any school that comes in will need to add atleast 45 million to the coffers of the sec per year or its just not work it. Thats around 20 million for the aforementioned school and 2 million for the other members. If a school cant do this now or in the near future when a SEC network is launched then the SEC has zero incentive to add said school.
FOR THE RECORD
B1G SCHOOLS MADE 22.6 MILLION PER SCHOOL LAST YEAR
SEC SCHOOLS MADE 17.3 MILLION PER SCHOOL LAST YEAR
SOME LINKS
how much sec schools make
Explains payout for B1G network
LINK
LINK
LINK
quote from USA TODAY ARTICLE linked above
"The Big Ten Network receives approximately $0.85 per cable subscriber in markets where it has a school, approximately $0.15 per subscriber out of market."
SO hopefully this puts to rest this notion that WVU is a good take as the 14th team. They are not and neither is any other school where an SEC team already resides. they do nothing to add to the future of this conference.
At this point the Big Ten schools make more per school then any other conference despite their contracts with abc and espn being even close to the size the sec's are. The reason is simple the B1G network.
The B1G is on basic cable and satellite packages throughout B1G country and the nation. For every household that has the channel in a state that has a B1G school they get a premium royalty from the service provider. In non B1G states that get a small royalty. The premium payout is much much more per household and that's why populous states are very important.
Total viewership is not important. I have seen many here say Missouri doesn't get many viewers in St louis and KC watching and it very well could be true. I believe SFP was the main one harping on this. Guess what it doesn't matter. The real money is in the premium royalties not commercials as the B1G has proven. These households will get the SEC network on an extended cable package or satellite the same way they get the B1G network and many of us get the B1G network here in Louisiana. Difference is they would now be that the cable companies in Missouri would be paying the SEC premium royalties.
Many here have said that FSU would be an ideal pick because they are a national brand, great tradition, fit the footprint, etc etc. All of this is true, but FSU is not a good fit to make existing SEC schools money. Yes they would make the SEC money on renegotiated contracts with espn and cbs but not much. They would have to pay for themselves which would be around 20mil and the possibility of bringing anything more then that is low and even if it was more it wouldn't be much more. They also do not add a new state and population base in which the SEC could charge a premium to once the SEC network is created. In the end they bring nothing to the table to make the exsisting SEC schools money.
For the exact reason listed why FSU is not a good fit, A&M is an amazing get for the SEC. Once the Network is created the ability to get premium royalties from the whole state of texas is huge. Its the exact reason i believe the SEC will not look to add TCU. TCU is in the same boat as FSU, they bring shite to the table that could make existing members money.
WVU is a good get but with a population of under 2 million they are not a huge get from a financial standpoint. They fit in the SEC but they do not significantly up the amount that exsisting members will make. If the SEC is truly looking to go to 16 like many believe then they are a really good get, but at 14 they are kinda HO-HUM....barely above average.
Missouri with almost 6 million would be a really good get especially if every conference is expanding to 16. they would significantly increase amount existing members could make in the future.
Another name that has been floated is NC State. Many have said they would be a good fit and they would be correct. Still many have complained that they have only been mediocre in the football in the week ACC and those posters would also be correct. But what NC State brings is a location inside a state with over 9 million people. I do not think people understand how big this is. This is a huge get and would make existing members an arse load of money in the future when a SEC network is created.
Which brings us to the last and biggest jewel of them all....Virginia Tech. Virginia has a population of almost 8 million and growing. This would significantly increase the amount of money a SEC network would make in the future.
To sum it up the best thing the SEC could do would be to add 4 the following teams
1. Texas A&M- adds 24,782,302 households
2. Virginia Tech- adds 7,882,590 households
3. North Carolina State- adds 9,380,884 households
4. Missouri- adds 5,987,580 households
5. West Virginia- adds 1,819,777
also East Carolina could come into play because of the population of NC. South Florida, Clemson, Louisville, and prolly TCU are out because of this.
This is the reason why I believe Slive has repeatedly stated that an expansion would come from new states. I know right now the SEC cant create their own network and nobody on this board knows if expanding will allow the SEC to create a full time network, but in the future the SEC will go this away. there is way way too much money left on the table if you do not. Hope this clears up some of the confusion.
BTW I'm not saying any of these teams are coming here, simply explaining why some schools are great gets and some are not. Kind of the same reason why Rutgers would be a very very good get for the B1G and why Syracuse was a very good get for the ACC in football also.
edited to add any school that comes in will need to add atleast 45 million to the coffers of the sec per year or its just not work it. Thats around 20 million for the aforementioned school and 2 million for the other members. If a school cant do this now or in the near future when a SEC network is launched then the SEC has zero incentive to add said school.
FOR THE RECORD
B1G SCHOOLS MADE 22.6 MILLION PER SCHOOL LAST YEAR
SEC SCHOOLS MADE 17.3 MILLION PER SCHOOL LAST YEAR
SOME LINKS
how much sec schools make
Explains payout for B1G network
LINK
LINK
LINK
quote from USA TODAY ARTICLE linked above
"The Big Ten Network receives approximately $0.85 per cable subscriber in markets where it has a school, approximately $0.15 per subscriber out of market."
SO hopefully this puts to rest this notion that WVU is a good take as the 14th team. They are not and neither is any other school where an SEC team already resides. they do nothing to add to the future of this conference.
This post was edited on 9/18/11 at 10:52 pm
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:01 pm to lsu777
quote:
WVU is a good get but with a population of under 2 million they are not a huge get from a financial standpoint. They fit in the SEC but they do not significantly up the amount that exsisting members will make. If the SEC is truly looking to go to 16 like many believe then they are a really good get, but at 14 they are kinda HO-HUM....barely above average.
preach on brotha

Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:04 pm to lsu777
The SEC Network is not set up like the Big Ten Network, so I am not sure about your point. Unless the SEC is shredding it's contract with ESPN for the SEC Network (same thing with the ACC), then marketability will matter.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:07 pm to lsu777
fsu is the only team that makes sense........maybe they like playing an easier schedule, but they are the NATURAL fit......
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:08 pm to lsu777
increasing the footprint is only one factor in increasing the revenue. you can also increase the viewership in existing markets. and technically, most of the SEC tv contracts are national, so everyone in Virginia, West Virginia, Missouri and Oregon is able to watch SEC games on CBS and ESPN.
but now expansion seems to be just as much on seeing how to get to 16 teams and keep harmony. it has been reported in several outlets that Slive now has the authority to look at all schools, including existing markets (FSU, Clemson, etc.)
but now expansion seems to be just as much on seeing how to get to 16 teams and keep harmony. it has been reported in several outlets that Slive now has the authority to look at all schools, including existing markets (FSU, Clemson, etc.)
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:10 pm to Geaux2002
i know it isnt setup like the B1G network. But there is speculation the SEC will push for it to become like this when renegotiating the contracts.
and this expansion is not about tomorrow, next year or the next 10 years.....its about the next 50 years and in the future the SEC will create its own network. Prolly sooner rather then later.
Also FSU is an ok get and prolly a better get then WVU because of its vast national appeal. But they are not a slam dunk. They have a hard time selling out their stadium which isnt that big compared to many in the SEC. they also dont make as much revenue wise as the big boys in the SEC do, even when you account for the difference in TV contract money.
and this expansion is not about tomorrow, next year or the next 10 years.....its about the next 50 years and in the future the SEC will create its own network. Prolly sooner rather then later.
Also FSU is an ok get and prolly a better get then WVU because of its vast national appeal. But they are not a slam dunk. They have a hard time selling out their stadium which isnt that big compared to many in the SEC. they also dont make as much revenue wise as the big boys in the SEC do, even when you account for the difference in TV contract money.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:12 pm to lsu777
Any links to support the financial claims you're making regarding viewership and tv deals?
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:12 pm to lsu777
I realize that viewers matter a lot but I'd still take FSU from a financial standpoint over many teams being tossed around. WVU makes ZERO sense to me.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:13 pm to winyahpercy
increasing viewership has a very very limited return on investment. The real money is in a SEC network expanded into very populous states.
THE B1G PROVES THIS. THEY MAKE MORE MONEY PER SCHOOL THEN ANY OTHER CONFERENCE FOR A REASON.
read what I wrote. and digest it and think about it. B1G doesnt have nearly as good of contracts as we do with espn, cbs; them abc, cbs. But yet they make more per school. there is a reason for that. the GOD DAMN B1G NETWORK IS WHERE THE MONEY IS!!!!
THE B1G PROVES THIS. THEY MAKE MORE MONEY PER SCHOOL THEN ANY OTHER CONFERENCE FOR A REASON.
read what I wrote. and digest it and think about it. B1G doesnt have nearly as good of contracts as we do with espn, cbs; them abc, cbs. But yet they make more per school. there is a reason for that. the GOD DAMN B1G NETWORK IS WHERE THE MONEY IS!!!!
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:13 pm to lsu777
quote:
WVU is a good get but with a population of under 2 million they are not a huge get from a financial standpoint.
-WVU brings huge parts of the the Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Washington DC TV markets, as well as residual parts of the Philly/NY/NJ markets.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:14 pm to jturn17
yea hang on i will look up the B1G payouts.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:15 pm to lsu777
I'd argue many SEC schools would have trouble with fan apathy if they were playing the schedule FSU has been.
Are you suggesting FSU wouldn't sell out their stadium for nearly all SEC games?
Are you suggesting FSU wouldn't sell out their stadium for nearly all SEC games?
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:15 pm to TheDoc
DOC that doesnt do shite for making money. im about to link some B1G network info that will prove this. give me a second.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:15 pm to Tiger Authority
quote:
WVU makes ZERO sense to me.
West Virginia Positives:
-Students attend WVU from all parts of the world. Approximately 57% of our students are residents of West Virginia. Students attend from all 55 counties of West Virginia, more than 90 different countries, and 49 states. Most out-of-state students will come from West Virginia’s neighboring states (New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Maryland)."
-WVU is classified as a Research University (High Research Activity) by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching.
-While West Virginia doesn't bring the biggest TV market, it does expand the market north, which is what it's all about. There are people who follow West Virginia outside of the state, and everyone follows the SEC.
-WVU serves Beer in their Stadium.
-Bringing in West Virginia will put other SEC games in more television sets in DC and Maryland, maybe even in southern Pennsylvania. Mostly, West Virginia has been a consistently good basketball and football program, and that will bring more money in.
-Twenty-five WVU students have received Rhodes Scholarships for study at Oxford; few public universities have produced more Rhodes Scholars than WVU.
-WVU ranks nationally for prestigious scholarships – 25 Rhodes Scholars, 21 Truman Scholars, 33 Goldwater Scholars, two British Marshall Scholars, two Morris K. Udall Scholars, five USA Today All-USA College Academic First Team Members (and 11 academic team honorees), eight Boren Scholars, five Gilman Scholars, three Department of Homeland Security Scholars, two Fulbright Scholars, and one Jack Kent Cooke Foundation Graduate Scholar.
-While the state of West Virginia has a Southern culture in many parts, Morgantown is in no way a "Southern" town. Most of the out-of-state kids are from Jersey, NY, and PA. I could just always see WVU being viewed as the odd team "from up there," kind of like BC in the ACC, which never made any sense other than the Boston TV market. WVU has a huge presence in the Pittsburgh, DC, and Virginia markets, and has traditionally preformed great in Charlotte and ATL markets.
WVU actually has a decent history of playing southern teams. They were once apart of the Southern Conference, and regularly played now ACC and SEC teams. Outside of Virginia Tech, I don't see another team available that would help the SEC more. They do have instant geographic rivalries with Kentucky and Tennesse, and as another poster said, basketball rivalries with Kentucky, Florida, and Vandy.
-WVU brings huge parts of the the Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Washington DC TV markets, as well as residual parts of the Philly/NY/NJ markets.
-Largest Thursday and Friday night ratings in the history of ESPN college football involve WVU games
-WVU gives the SEC the biggest fan following in the Northeast outside of Penn State, a school with recent BCS bowl wins over Georgia and Oklahoma, and a tremendous fan base.
-WVU also would not bolt to the Big 10 like Missouri would.
- WVU fits in the SEC footprint and after some research you will find their academics are on par with most SEC members and they have no hurdles to clear they will be available immediately.
-West Virginia has a top notch basketball program that could come in and immediately compete with Vanderbilt, Florida and Kentucky—creating instant rivalries there.
-There is also, of course, their football program. If they were in the SEC East this year, they'd be competing with South Carolina and Florida for the SEC East crown.
-West Virginia is a nearly perfect fit for the SEC and it may end up being the final piece of a 14 team SEC super-conference.
-morgantown only an hour from pittsburgh and have a huge following in western pa, pitt has no fan base to speak of
-The DC area is full of wvu fans due to many grads moving there or the larger amount of students/alumni from the area and same goes for NY/NJ
-WVU won a share of the Big East title in 6 of the 20 years of the conference. That's a pretty good run. WVU is a for real football squad.
-West Virginia doesn't have a pro football team.
-WVU is THE team the whole state watches.
-majority of its fans/alumni dont even live in the state any more or never spent more than their college years there.
The 2 million tv sets in the state of wv is just an added bonus
-WVA - Top 15 Merchandise
-WVA - Top 25 in Revenue
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:15 pm to TheDoc
How many times have you posted that?
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:16 pm to lsu777
FSU selling out their stadium is not a big deal. If they would join the SEC, they'd sell it out. If by some chance they wouldnt, the visiting fans will fill the seats....EVERY WEEKEND.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:16 pm to lsu777
quote:
DOC that doesnt do shite for making money.
national viewership?
of course FSU would be the ideal grab for the SEC
it's just not realistic
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:20 pm to lsu777
Damn good post. Thanks. I get the B1G Network on cable where I live and never watch it. It came with the package I chose. I always wondered why because the state I live in does not even have a B1G team in it.
Posted on 9/18/11 at 10:23 pm to TheDoc
DOC did you read anything I wrote? you keep posting bullshite. Your telling me that WVU has enough national appeal to bring in an extra 20 million to cover themselves plus atleast another 26 million to make the other schools atleast another 2 million? thats the only way WVU is worth adding is if they can do that. If you really believe WVU would add an extra 45-50 million per year to the existing tv contracts then you prolly have been faking and believe Jefferson is a stud QB.
here are a few articles on syaing how much the b1g network payed out. Im trying to find some better links still
LINK
LINK
LINK
SEC schools only made 17.9 mill last year.
here are a few articles on syaing how much the b1g network payed out. Im trying to find some better links still
LINK
LINK
LINK
SEC schools only made 17.9 mill last year.
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