re: Turkey Popul. Decline Explained

Rob Keck . Good dude. Was pres of nwtf back in the heydays

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I’m in a tree stand right now waiting to kill any predator that is being listed here. I’ve got them all. I’ve let coon after coon live because I didn’t know better. Do now.

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After reading this thread?

Go watch/listen to the Turkey Science Podcast episode on predators if you want to know something. Raccoons aren't near the issue people make them out to be unless nesting habitat is marginal.

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Way more predators than prey.

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That doesn't even make sense, but ok. Just ignore the fact that research on predation, has largely been done incorrectly according to the experts. But when done correctly, shows that predation is not nearly as big a factor as conventional wisdom has told us. That podcast episode has these guys talking about foxes trying to (unsuccessfully) take eggs right from underneath a hen; bears walking right past turkeys without messing with them; and discussion about studies that showed raccoons weren't even using the same areas as nesting hens when they had adequate nesting habitat.

I don't have a problem with predator hunting. I have a problem with the thought that it's a silver bullet, or is even remotely as effective as good habitat management practices, like not bushhogging everytime the itch comes along and managing for high quality, early successional habitat.

There will always be predators. Even when you reduce one population down, SOMETHING is going to fill that gap you created. Hard to control snakes, hawks, owls, and any other critter that doesn't get around on 4 legs, but those will be the ones that fill that gap.

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Every little bit helps.

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The point is that’s not true when it comes to predators.

If you shoot one dominant coyote without a consistent, continued effort then it gets replaced with multiple subordinates. You run a feeder for hogs and you shoot a handful, and feed the rest. Bait coons and catch a couple and draw the other dozen into an area they otherwise wouldn’t have been, closer to turkey nests.

For it to actually help, the effort has to be extremely intensive, and anything less can make it worse. More power to you if you wanna do that, predator reduction works if done along with other improvements, but your time and energy would be more helpful to deer and turkeys with some diesel and a match.

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What if we stopped shooting them?

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As crazy as that sounds, if a shitload of land owners do the right thing as far as land management and you take 2 years off from killing turkeys, and go after the predators with vengeance, I can guarantee you that the population will grow.

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What if we stopped shooting them?

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Multiple states have cut bag limits and pushed season dates back.

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go after the predators with vengeance,

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No jakes
Only One bird
Only One bird the first two weeks
No hunting past 1 pm
No decoys before a certain date

Louisiana - Everything goes

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LDWF says there's not enough data suggesting killing jakes is a problem. I specifically asked about it and was told "not that many jakes get reported." No shite they don't get reported. No grown man is going to report a jake. So now I encourage everyone to call in their unused tags at the end of the year as jakes just to bump the numbers up so that maybe one day they'll be illegal to shoot.

I also agree that some limitation early in the season would be beneficial, even with the LA season getting pushed back to April 1. There's plenty of data showing how killing of gobblers early in the breeding cycle has a negative effect on turkey numbers.

I could get on board with no afternoon hunting. At least no afternoon hunting on weekends maybe. That would limit folks from posting up on a place where they've been getting pictures of turkeys and just waiting them out like deer (which isn't real turkey hunting but that's another discussion). Hell, no cell cams during turkey season is a good rule (even though it would be impossible to police).

No decoys period would be fine. Or like you say, maybe during youth season and the last weekend of the season decoys can be used.

Agree with all that

Last year we finally had a decent batch of poults across most areas which means lots of jakes this year 2021 was abysmal so not many 2 year olds on the landscape

I bet not many jakes get called in this year just like every year. Even though they get shot, they get reported as adults because there is no method of verification

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I’m concerned about what they’re finding out on this. My anecdotal experience has been that once the dominant bird goes down on our property, all hell breaks loose.

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There is definitely some truth to it. Before the popularity of tss and gobbler fans and decoys the dominant bird was very tough to kill early season. You might would get him to 50 or 60 yards but that was out of range. That’s a chip shot now

Throw out a half strutting jake decoy and he loses all sense

That dominant bird is doing almost all the breeding

And don’t get me started on people crawling birds on a food plot when their cell cams send them a picture