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re: Official AR-15 thread

Posted on 1/11/16 at 4:11 pm to
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95317 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 4:11 pm to
quote:

Wow that was extremely easy


Yeah - you should actually include it in your field strip/routine maintenance regimen.

Military training does not have us go into the lower receiver for field stripping, beyond the buffer and spring. The trigger, bolt catch, magazine release and safety selector are all considered "armorer level" maintenance.

Moral of the story: If they let a private remove the buffer and buffer spring, literally any primate can do it after being shown once or twice.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95317 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 4:19 pm to
quote:

1:9 twist barrels which will stabilize 75gr OTM's just fine.


Personally, I think that 1:8 and 1:9 twist rates are probably "more versatile" and if a shooter knows he's going to be shooting a wide range of bullet weights, 1:9 might be the right twist rate. Heck, my EA-15 has a moly-chrome barrel with a 1:9 and shoots just fine.

But, the market is providing 1:7 and, unless the shooter is going to shoot a bunch of light bullets through it, that twist rate will not be detrimental to shooting (and, really, with 14.5" and 16" barrels dominating this segment as well, I'm not even sure if you'll get that many problems or all that much increased wear if you shoot some lighter bullets, to be completely frank about it.)

1:8 and 1:9 are probably more versatile barrels and will likely last longer, all other things being equal. Still nothing wrong with a 1:7 in a carbine, though.
This post was edited on 1/11/16 at 4:38 pm
Posted by Sancho Panza
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
8161 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 5:04 pm to
20" 1/7 is slightly more accurate than 20" 1/9 with M855 (62 grain).

20" 1/12 is slightly more accurate than 20" 1/9 with M193 (55 grain).

Source: Chart in The Black Rifle, disremember what page, just now.
This post was edited on 1/11/16 at 7:36 pm
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
33689 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 5:36 pm to
You sure you got that right.

A 7 twist would be the most versatile seeing as it can stabilize the widest range of bullets. Your not going to have issues "over stabilizing" espcially in a 223/556. Your run in to problems with a fast twist 22-250 shooting 40gr bullets at 4500fps maybe.

I'd say a 7 twist is the most versatile, but my non scientific guess would be that 98% of ar shooter will never have any idea what we are talking about.
Posted by Sancho Panza
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
8161 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 7:32 pm to
M193 is accurate to 300m through 20" 1/7, provided it is zeroed with that ammo.

M855 should only be used for COMBAT EMERGENCY through 20" 1/12.

Source FM 23-9 M16A1 and M16A2 Rifle Marksmanship.

Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
33689 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 8:02 pm to
You really needed a book to tell you that?
Posted by Sancho Panza
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
8161 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 8:22 pm to
No, but I didn't post that for my edification. I cite my source for others.
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
33689 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 8:27 pm to
Cool.

Have you read any of these books?

LINK

I need to get another one.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
19411 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 8:37 pm to
quote:

20" 1/7 is slightly more accurate than 20" 1/9 with M855 (62 grain).

20" 1/12 is slightly more accurate than 20" 1/9 with M193 (55 grain).



Army testing at Aberdeen found otherwise.
Posted by Sancho Panza
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
8161 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 8:49 pm to
Not really, too much sugar for these old eyes.

300m is about the best I can do anymore, with iron sights.

Eyes got so bad I sold, up north, my pre-ban SA M1A, all USGI (except, obviously, the receiver).

Sold my pre-ban Colt, PWA & Bushmaster up north, too & replaced them with new ones for less.

Since then, the new ones were all lost, in a terrible accident, deep in the River...
Posted by Petey8
Member since Jul 2009
622 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 8:49 pm to
I have witnessed too much twist with too high velocity. 55gr ballistic tip through my 1:8 18" broke apart at around 50yds. I know this because I was shooting over dry dirt and saw the pieces hit dirt and throw dust.

I do wonder if ballistic tips are just more touchy to the twist/velocity/grain ratio then a copper jacketed bullet?
Posted by Sancho Panza
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
8161 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 8:50 pm to
Cite your source & define otherwise, please.
This post was edited on 1/11/16 at 8:52 pm
Posted by WPsportsman
In a van down by the river
Member since Jun 2015
2408 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 9:12 pm to
Looking at a Colt 6920 for a starter my guy says he can't get them right now from his buyer, anyone know where I can get one and mabe get it shipped to him?
This post was edited on 1/11/16 at 9:14 pm
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
33689 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 9:26 pm to
What bullet/ammo was that? I'd bet there was something wrong with the jacket or you are shooting a 22-250 AI or some other super high velocity round.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
19411 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 9:29 pm to
Various Army Research Laboratory documents and research going back as far as the early days of testing the AR15 rifle. The Army and Navy have done a lot of research and testing and I'm not talking about the crude range tests magazines and professional shooters are limited to, talking about calibrated test equipment and instrumented ranges where everything from the temperature of the ammo (from documented lots) to conditioning of the rifles and measuring bore wear at regular round counts. When the Army was in the process of moving away from M193 and A1 rifles there was a lot of input across the branches and a lot of testing of barrel profiles, twist rates, and ammo types. The DoD does a lot more testing and evaluation of its small arms than most know or will give it credit for.
Posted by Sancho Panza
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
8161 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 9:32 pm to
Try Cabelas.
Posted by Sancho Panza
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
8161 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 9:39 pm to
Being a retired Army Officer, I am aware of such, will have to look into your statements.

Have 3 friends who go to Aberdeen 2-3 times a year; perhaps they may help.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
19411 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 10:26 pm to
Hope they do, interesting the technology they have for ballistic testing. They can measure what the bullet is doing while it's traveling down the barrel. Just keep in mind, the 1:7 twist wasn't chosen for accuracy of M855, it was chosen as a compromise with M856.
Posted by Sancho Panza
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
8161 posts
Posted on 1/11/16 at 10:52 pm to
Yes, I'm well aware of that, had some M855 & M856 loaded in my mags, before the accident.
Posted by LSUMurse
Metairie, LA
Member since May 2008
352 posts
Posted on 1/12/16 at 8:30 am to
I'm just starting to toy with the idea of getting an AR-15. I'm probably going to go with a complete gun to start and put a few hundred rounds through it before I decide what I like/need for a possible build.

My question is: If I buy an AR chambered for 5.56, can I just switch out the upper and change it to a .308 or a .300? Basically, I'm looking to possibly use it for deer hunting and I want to make sure I have enough bullet to be sure to kill and not just wound.
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