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Message
re: Annual dove baiting conversation
Posted on 8/6/26 at 8:09 pm to Insurancerebel
Posted on 8/6/26 at 8:09 pm to Insurancerebel
quote:
Also, the recommended wheat planting dates start around August 15 in Mississippi
No way that is correct. Recommended by who? A dove hunter?
1
Posted on 8/6/26 at 11:37 pm to Insurancerebel
Check your G& F regulations. Most broadcast grains planted as a winter crop, like wheat and millet, have to be disked under 7 days before dove season opens.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:45 am to highcotton2
quote:
No way that is correct. Recommended by who? A dove hunter?
"August 15th to October 15th as a normal agricultural practice. You must spread the seed evenly at a rate of no more than 90 pounds per acre, and you cannot pile or clump the seed."
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:47 am to America250
quote:
Check your G& F regulations. Most broadcast grains planted as a winter crop, like wheat and millet, have to be disked under 7 days before dove season opens.
"In Mississippi, it is legal to leave wheat uncovered after top sowing anywhere in the state, provided you are planting within the legal fall window and on properly prepared ground. Unlike some neighboring states that restrict uncovered top sowing to specific zones, the Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks (MDWFP) recognizes top sowing winter wheat as a statewide standard agricultural practice for winter grazing, cover crops, and wildlife food plots"
Posted on 8/7/26 at 1:12 pm to Insurancerebel
quote:
August 15th to October 15th as a normal agricultural practice. You must spread the seed evenly at a rate of no more than 90 pounds per acre, and you cannot pile or clump the seed."
Was not doubting the regulations state that. What I was highly doubting was that is listed as a Recommended planting date. That is in no way a normal planting date for a winter wheat crop. That is specifically written to allow baiting doves. Not arguing with it. Just pointing out that is not a normal agricultural practice.
Posted on 8/7/26 at 7:13 pm to highcotton2
quote:
Was not doubting the regulations state that. What I was highly doubting was that is listed as a Recommended planting date. That is in no way a normal planting date for a winter wheat crop. That is specifically written to allow baiting doves. Not arguing with it. Just pointing out that is not a normal agricultural practice.
Not for harvest wheat, but is acceptable for cattle grazing
Posted on 8/7/26 at 8:37 pm to Insurancerebel
quote:
Not for harvest wheat, but is acceptable for cattle grazing
Still a highly abnormal practice even for grazing. And especially when broadcast on top of the ground. That would not be a normal farm practice ever if your goal was to make money. We can keep arguing back and forth but it does not change the fact that this not ever done in normal circumstances.
Posted on 8/8/26 at 8:23 am to Insurancerebel
If you want to be safe, follow the extension service recommendations for your state.
The federal appellate court for LA, TX and MS addressed this a few years ago.
In United States v. William E. Holdman (2023), the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit affirmed that to claim the "normal agricultural operation" safe harbor under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA), a landowner or hunter must strictly follow the official, specific recommendations of that exact state’s Cooperative Extension Service, rather than generalized regional or neighboring state guidelines.
Holdman, a Louisiana deer farm owner, top-sowed winter wheat on a disced field in August/September without covering the seed with soil, broadcasting it at a heavy rate to attract doves near an artificial power line hide.State wildlife agents established that his practices directly violated the Louisiana State Extension Service guidelines, which required wheat seeds to be covered with approximately an inch of soil, planted at a lighter rate per acre, and timed differently.
From the decision: Dr. Reed, who authored or co-authored all three pamphlets, testified that Holdman failed to follow the recommended guidelines for normal agricultural procedures in these ways: (1) he scattered the winter wheat seed prior to the recommended date of September 1, (2) he left the seed uncovered rather than using one inch of soil cover, and (3) he distributed the seed too densely, 120 pounds of seed per acre rather than the recommended 80 pounds of seed per acre. After reviewing images of the area, including the artificial power line and brush hide, Dr. Reed opined that Holdman's field was not in line with Louisiana's Cooperative Extension Service guidelines for a wheat field and, therefore, fell outside the MBTA regulations' definition of a “normal agricultural operation.”
Here is the decision if you was to read the whole thing. LINK
The federal appellate court for LA, TX and MS addressed this a few years ago.
In United States v. William E. Holdman (2023), the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit affirmed that to claim the "normal agricultural operation" safe harbor under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA), a landowner or hunter must strictly follow the official, specific recommendations of that exact state’s Cooperative Extension Service, rather than generalized regional or neighboring state guidelines.
Holdman, a Louisiana deer farm owner, top-sowed winter wheat on a disced field in August/September without covering the seed with soil, broadcasting it at a heavy rate to attract doves near an artificial power line hide.State wildlife agents established that his practices directly violated the Louisiana State Extension Service guidelines, which required wheat seeds to be covered with approximately an inch of soil, planted at a lighter rate per acre, and timed differently.
From the decision: Dr. Reed, who authored or co-authored all three pamphlets, testified that Holdman failed to follow the recommended guidelines for normal agricultural procedures in these ways: (1) he scattered the winter wheat seed prior to the recommended date of September 1, (2) he left the seed uncovered rather than using one inch of soil cover, and (3) he distributed the seed too densely, 120 pounds of seed per acre rather than the recommended 80 pounds of seed per acre. After reviewing images of the area, including the artificial power line and brush hide, Dr. Reed opined that Holdman's field was not in line with Louisiana's Cooperative Extension Service guidelines for a wheat field and, therefore, fell outside the MBTA regulations' definition of a “normal agricultural operation.”
Here is the decision if you was to read the whole thing. LINK
Posted on 8/10/26 at 8:52 am to highcotton2
quote:
Still a highly abnormal practice even for grazing. And especially when broadcast on top of the ground. That would not be a normal farm practice ever if your goal was to make money. We can keep arguing back and forth but it does not change the fact that this not ever done in normal circumstances.
Best friend growing up, and he’s still ranching today. They used to disc up the pastures and use a grain cart to broadcast the wheat. Always had lush green fields for the cattle.
That was before drills became as common as they are now. They drill probably 90% of it today, but they still use the grain cart on the good dove spots.
According to them, the wheat came up just fine broadcast on the disked ground. Going back over it again just to cover the seed meant another trip across the field, more fuel, more time, and more equipment use, and they didn’t see enough benefit to justify it.
So saying this is something that is “not ever done in normal circumstances” just isn’t accurate. Maybe it’s not the preferred method today with drills readily available, but broadcasting wheat onto a disked pasture for winter grazing absolutely has been a normal farming practice.
Posted on 8/10/26 at 9:01 am to Twenty 49
quote:
If you want to be safe, follow the extension service recommendations for your state.
The federal appellate court for LA, TX and MS addressed this a few years ago.
In United States v. William E. Holdman (2023), the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit affirmed that to claim the "normal agricultural operation" safe harbor under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA), a landowner or hunter must strictly follow the official, specific recommendations of that exact state’s Cooperative Extension Service, rather than generalized regional or neighboring state guidelines.
Holdman, a Louisiana deer farm owner, top-sowed winter wheat on a disced field in August/September without covering the seed with soil, broadcasting it at a heavy rate to attract doves near an artificial power line hide.State wildlife agents established that his practices directly violated the Louisiana State Extension Service guidelines, which required wheat seeds to be covered with approximately an inch of soil, planted at a lighter rate per acre, and timed differently.
From the decision: Dr. Reed, who authored or co-authored all three pamphlets, testified that Holdman failed to follow the recommended guidelines for normal agricultural procedures in these ways: (1) he scattered the winter wheat seed prior to the recommended date of September 1, (2) he left the seed uncovered rather than using one inch of soil cover, and (3) he distributed the seed too densely, 120 pounds of seed per acre rather than the recommended 80 pounds of seed per acre. After reviewing images of the area, including the artificial power line and brush hide, Dr. Reed opined that Holdman's field was not in line with Louisiana's Cooperative Extension Service guidelines for a wheat field and, therefore, fell outside the MBTA regulations' definition of a “normal agricultural operation.”
Here is the decision if you was to read the whole thing. LINK
Yes! Excellent point, but I think this case actually strengthens the point I’ve been making.
The Fifth Circuit didn't establish one farming standard that applies equally to Louisiana, Texas and Mississippi. Instead, it ruled that what qualifies as a “normal agricultural operation” depends on the recommended agricultural practices of the state where the field is located.
That was a major issue in this case. Holdman's attorney specifically introduced Mississippi State's recommendations because Mississippi allowed wheat planting beginning August 15 and broadcast rates up to 120 lbs./acre.
The court wouldn't let him use Mississippi's recommendations because his field was in Louisiana. The Fifth Circuit was very clear: “The guidance from the state of Louisiana is the only relevant guidance.”
To me, that's the important takeaway from this case. The federal court didn't say Louisiana's recommended farming practices become the standard for everybody in the Fifth Circuit. It said the opposite—the federal safe harbor looks to each state's Extension Service to determine what constitutes an acceptable normal agricultural practice in that state.
So for a field in Mississippi, the question isn't what LSU Extension says is normal farming in Louisiana. The question is what Mississippi State Extension says is a normal agricultural practice in Mississippi.
If anything, Holdman gives us a pretty strong indication that a federal court considering a Mississippi case is going to look to Mississippi's own recommended farming practices, just like it looked to Louisiana's in Holdman.
Posted on 8/10/26 at 9:37 am to Insurancerebel
quote:
So saying this is something that is “not ever done in normal circumstances” just isn’t accurate. Maybe it’s not the preferred method today with drills readily available, but broadcasting wheat onto a disked pasture for winter grazing absolutely has been a normal farming practice.
I think the argument is the timing of the year when it is done. Ain’t nobody planting winter wheat in August unless they are trying to kill doves
MS allows it because of politics Lots of MS game laws are due to politics. Trent Lott got a lot of rules changed for migratory birds. Most of them weren’t for the benefit of the birds
Posted on 8/10/26 at 11:34 am to Ron Cheramie
quote:
MS allows it because of politics Lots of MS game laws are due to politics. Trent Lott got a lot of rules changed for migratory birds. Most of them weren’t for the benefit of the birds
Lott helped fix splits and number of days for the states at the tail end of the ms flyway.
You’d think as corrupt as LA is, they’d fix that for you baws
Friend of mine in Arkansas claims they can overseed standing pasture land with wheat. Meaning they don’t even have to disc it.
Posted on 8/10/26 at 11:44 am to Insurancerebel
quote:I got in a tight spot w that practice around 85. Thank God for a lenient game warden.
Friend of mine in Arkansas claims they can overseed standing pasture land with wheat. Meaning they don’t even have to disc it.
Posted on 8/10/26 at 4:42 pm to Insurancerebel
quote:
roadcasting wheat onto a disked pasture for winter grazing absolutely has been a normal farming practice.
No it hasn’t ever been normal to broadcast wheat on disked ground in August. Your “friend” didn’t do it either in August and have lush fields.
Posted on 8/11/26 at 8:12 am to highcotton2
quote:
No it hasn’t ever been normal to broadcast wheat on disked ground in August. Your “friend” didn’t do it either in August and have lush fields.
100% they did
Posted on 8/11/26 at 8:35 am to Insurancerebel
quote:
100% they did
He planted it in August with full intentions to hunt doves over it though. I am sure he planted on top of that first playing as well
If someone wanted to establish a good winter wheat crop, they are not even thinking about it in August. It’s for doves plain and simple.
What’s isn’t hard to grow. It will grow in the bag if it the bag gets wet but it will also die back real quick in the dry months of September and October
This post was edited on 8/11/26 at 8:37 am
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