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Message
Unrefined Crude Question.....
Posted on 5/4/10 at 9:59 pm
Posted on 5/4/10 at 9:59 pm
I am not a chemical engineer or even a chemist... but my friend who is both told me that this is much more media hype than a real disaster.... he stated that unrefined crude is more of a "long chain carbon substance" with little longterm residual damage to the environment beyond the imediate impact. If it were refined crude say - diesel, gasoline, motor oil etc... this would be really a disaster.
This post was edited on 5/4/10 at 10:11 pm
7
Posted on 5/4/10 at 10:01 pm to NAsh-vegas Tigah
all crude is different so there is no definite answer
Posted on 5/4/10 at 10:04 pm to NAsh-vegas Tigah
I have noticed that oftentimes when the media is talking about the spill as a whole, they appear to be talking about just a sheen of oil, as opposed to a thick layer of crude.
Posted on 5/4/10 at 11:02 pm to NAsh-vegas Tigah
quote:
unrefined crude is more of a "long chain carbon substance"
True.
quote:
with little longterm residual damage to the environment beyond the imediate impact.
Eh...probably false. I can tell you from experience that a chemical engineering degree does not qualify him to know what effect crude oil will have on a marsh.
quote:
it were refined crude say - diesel, gasoline, motor oil etc... this would be really a disaster.
Diesel, gasoline, kerosene, propane, etc. are to crude oil what cream, skim milk, butter, etc. are to cow's milk...they are just different parts of the whole. At the temps and pressures on the surface of the gulf, the heaviest crap (asphalt, etc....the long-chain hydrocarbons) will separate out and sink, while the lightest stuff (short-chains...the propanes, butanes, etc.) will evaporate, as will some of the other < 10C chain molecules. What is left will essentially be really unrefined gasoline, but the SAME CHEMICAL MAKEUP, so I don't see how he thinks it would be worse for the environment if it were refined gasoline.
Posted on 5/4/10 at 11:04 pm to USMCTiger03
quote:
I have noticed that oftentimes when the media is talking about the spill as a whole, they appear to be talking about just a sheen of oil, as opposed to a thick layer of crude.
As the "crude" gets further from the source, it spreads out (making it thinner), the light ends evaporate (making it thinner), and the dispersants take effect. However, when you're talking about this kind of volume, you're still going to have some bad shite.
That being said, you're not going to see thick, black crude rolling up on Destin beach anytime soon.....especially if they manage to cap the well in the coming days.
Posted on 5/4/10 at 11:21 pm to NAsh-vegas Tigah
some dude, a Phd at LSU is analyzing it.
He said on TV today, that what came up at first was thick, and trouble, but what came up rapidly changed to something which mixed with water and will deteriorate.
He said on TV today, that what came up at first was thick, and trouble, but what came up rapidly changed to something which mixed with water and will deteriorate.
Posted on 5/4/10 at 11:27 pm to NAsh-vegas Tigah
quote:
but my friend who is both told me that this is much more media hype than a real disaster.... he stated that unrefined crude is more of a "long chain carbon substance" with little longterm residual damage to the environment beyond the imediate impact.
Some of the light ends will burn off with the sun. The main thing in Crude is Benzene (You'll see signs posted on barges like this).....
This is the warning.
As far as cleanup..........this 2008 spill in the lower part of the Mississippi River may help to understand some of the cleanup efforts....
LINK
These cleanup barges were used in Alaska and have done well.....
I've been on one, they move slow, but do a good job.
This is when a barge and ship collided in Tx.
The ship is a little over 800ft. long and has around 500K bbls of crude onboard.
Another pic.......
This will not be an easy task, keeping the oil from shore is the best thing to do. To skim the oil, decant (Remove the oil from the water), then transport the oil to storage, will be the thing to do. Saying is one thing. But remember, all oil companies will help with the cleanup, BP, Chevron, XOM, Shell, etc. BP is not alone in this.
Posted on 5/5/10 at 12:25 am to Luke4LSU
quote:
As the "crude" gets further from the source, it spreads out (making it thinner), the light ends evaporate (making it thinner), and the dispersants take effect. However, when you're talking about this kind of volume, you're still going to have some bad shite.
quote:Is it a matter of it being too far such that the earl mostly does whatever it's gonna do before it gets there?
That being said, you're not going to see thick, black crude rolling up on Destin beach anytime soon.....especially if they manage to cap the well in the coming days.
Posted on 5/5/10 at 12:59 am to NAsh-vegas Tigah
One other key differentiator between this and the Exxon Valdez spill is that this oil is light sweet crude, which is much lighter than the stuff they drill for in Alaska.
Posted on 5/5/10 at 6:40 am to LSUDad
quote:
These cleanup barges were used in Alaska and have done well.....
I've been on one, they move slow, but do a good job.
Need as many of this suckers down there as we can get!!!!!!!!!! These relatively common? I assume there is quite a few already working the spill?
Posted on 5/5/10 at 8:27 am to TJG210
quote:
e other key differentiator between this and the Exxon Valdez spill is that this oil is light sweet crude, which is much lighter than the stuff they drill for in Alaska.
North Slope Crude is heavier than the crude from this rig.
Posted on 5/5/10 at 9:02 am to jeffsdad
quote:
These relatively common? I assume there is quite a few already working the spill?
I've seen many. When the cleanup in Alaska was finished, many of these were kept around. I've seen 4 in use in the La. area. I know there are more of these.
For now, dispersants is the best thing to use, before it gets to the surface(Injected into the oil before it get to the surface) and once it gets on top of the gulf waters.
In heavy oil, the pom poms work well.....
In light oils, sheens........boom and pads are used.....
Also a Sausage Boom for oil/sheens....
Posted on 5/5/10 at 9:07 am to TJG210
quote:
this oil is light sweet crude
The highest in H2S Crude we see in this area is the Maya Crude (from Mexico) at over 2000 ppm.
Posted on 5/5/10 at 9:24 am to NAsh-vegas Tigah
it contains benzene. benzene causes cancer.
Posted on 5/5/10 at 9:42 am to TJG210
quote:
that this oil is light sweet crude
No, actually, its not. Do you people read?
Posted on 5/5/10 at 10:02 am to Alatgr
quote:
that this oil is light sweet crude
No, actually, its not. Do you people read?
quote:
Engineers said the type of oil pouring out is lighter than the heavy crude spilled by the Exxon Valdez, evaporates more quickly and is easier to burn. It also appears to respond to the use of dispersants, which break up globs of oil and help them sink.
LINK
Posted on 5/5/10 at 10:06 am to LSUDad
Posted on 5/5/10 at 10:12 am to ottothewise
quote:
He said on TV today, that what came up at first was thick, and trouble
You have to take into account the effects that temp takes on the oil. It is very cold at the source where this oil is exiting the pipe at on the sea floor. It starts to increase in temp as it gets closer to the surface, but after being on the surface for some time the surface temps will change the viscosity of the oil as well as the water and currents help disperse it.
Posted on 5/5/10 at 10:12 am to Alatgr
quote:
My bads. I hadn't seen the new tests.
Most of the crude from this region(South La., Eugene Island, etc.) is along the lines of the crude from the Persian Gulf. Light Sweet, great for lube stock, mogas, etc. They have an Arab Heavy, thats not really heavy, just by their standards.
Posted on 5/5/10 at 11:48 pm to LSUDad
quote:
They have an Arab Heavy, thats not really heavy, just by their standards.
The crude from this well is HLS (Heavy Louisiana Sweet). Heavy by La. standards. Still a lighter crude.
Some of the Persian Gulf crudes from Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. are very close to the La. crudes. Crudes are classified as lube approved and non-lube approved.
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