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re: Why does Hitler get more hate than Stalin?
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:24 pm to ninthward
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:24 pm to ninthward
quote:
Wrong, they invaded Poland with Russia's help, which forced Britain and France to declare war on Germany if they did not withdraw troops from Poland.
Apparently you aren't following my point. I'm quite aware of what prompted France and Britain to declare war on Germany, I even mentioned it earlier. The point is that these were CHOICES the French and British made. You suggested that because Hitler ordered a bombing of London, it must mean that he had grand designs on war with the Western nations. I pointed out the invalidity of this claim by referencing the British and French declarations upon Germany, not the other way around.
There is nothing "wrong" about any of that. It's all quite factual. I'm not quite sure where the confusion is.
1
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:26 pm to ninthward
quote:
Have you looked into what Hitler did after France surrendered in ww2, he destroyed the train, the statutes anything that was related to the German surrender.
I've been a WWII history buff for going on 20 years now, so needless to say, yes, I'm quite familiar. And none of that indicates that Hitler had grand designs on war with France. You're drawing an invalid conclusion. Though it certainly illustrates what historians are already well aware of, that Hitler and other Germans held great contempt for the French stemming from the First World War and it's punitive aftermath.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:27 pm to ChewyDante
quote:No I was using the bombing of London to explain the fact that, when pushed, forced or wanted to Hitler would and did invade or bomb just about everyone he intended to.
Apparently you aren't following my point. I'm quite aware of what prompted France and Britain to declare war on Germany, I even mentioned it earlier. The point is that these were CHOICES the French and British made. You suggested that because Hitler ordered a bombing of London, it must mean that he had grand designs on war with the Western nations. I pointed out the invalidity of this claim by referencing the British and French declarations upon Germany, not the other way around.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:30 pm to ChewyDante
Wow what I surprise, me as well, I have spent the last 30 years reading about WW2.
I will leave this quote here again:
I will leave this quote here again:
quote:
LAURENCE REES: And to what extent do you think the war was the creation of that one person, of Hitler?
NORBERT FREI: Well, I do think that there was a readiness for at least having a confined sort of war in the military. Hitler in 1933 made it quite clear to some of his officers, when he talked about his idea and concept of Lebensraum, that he finally would go for war. And the conservative or reactionary military elite subscribed to a certain extent to that, especially when they were reflecting upon Poland, and also when they were probably reflecting about France and the situation in Alsace Lorraine. But generally speaking he didn’t make up his mind about his full idea: what war at the end would probably mean.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:30 pm to SlowEasyConfident
Because his name is easier to say.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:31 pm to ninthward
quote:
He wanted revenge for the Armistice of Compiègne.
Yes, he did.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:31 pm to ninthward
quote:
No I was using the bombing of London to explain the fact that, when pushed, forced or wanted to Hitler would and did invade or bomb just about everyone he intended to.
I'm not following your spin here. So you are saying Hitler was willing to fight back against countries who declared war against Germany? And? What's the insight there?
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:32 pm to ninthward
quote:
Wow what I surprise, me as well, I have spent the last 30 years reading about WW2.
That's great.
quote:
I will leave this quote here again:
What exactly are you trying to indicate that this quote suggests?
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:33 pm to ChewyDante
quote:That regardless of Germany's position in 39-40 and the pleads from Hitler to Britain for a non aggression pact where withered away in a matter of months and lead to the first large scale bombing of a civilian target, pretty extreme shift for someone who did not want war.
I'm not following your spin here. So you are saying Hitler was willing to fight back against countries who declared war against Germany? And? What's the insight there?
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 8:35 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:34 pm to ChewyDante
quote:That in 1933 Hitler admitted to the German army that the German expansion west would lead to war and he was prepared for that.
What exactly are you trying to indicate that this quote suggests?
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:34 pm to SlowEasyConfident
Stalin did not have an organized intent to kill some group of the population.
He continued Lenin's policy of brooking no interference.
The Ukrainians have a beef. He made a command decision which caused a famine. large numbers died. That is on Stalin, but it was not murder per se.
I don't think its even close. If you are from Ukraine I am sure you think they are the same. If you re from one of the -stans, or outer Mongolia, you don't get the comparison.
He continued Lenin's policy of brooking no interference.
The Ukrainians have a beef. He made a command decision which caused a famine. large numbers died. That is on Stalin, but it was not murder per se.
I don't think its even close. If you are from Ukraine I am sure you think they are the same. If you re from one of the -stans, or outer Mongolia, you don't get the comparison.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:38 pm to ninthward
quote:
That regardless of Germany's position in 39-40 and the pleads from Hitler to Britain for a non aggression pact where withered away in a matter of month and lead to the first large scale bombing of a civilian target, pretty extreme shift for someone who did not want war.
You're grasping at straws here. They were already at war. So it wasn't a drastic shift at all. If you can provide some kind of substantive argument that suggests that prior to the outbreak of hostilities in September 1939, Hitler indicated a desire to go to war with France, then that would be a persuasive argument. So far you have only suggested that German military actions taken after France's declaration upon Germany are somehow indicative of Hitler's preemptive desire to conquer France. That's simply not a valid argument.
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:42 pm to ninthward
quote:
That in 1933 Hitler admitted to the German army that the German expansion west would lead to war and he was prepared for that.
Nothing in that quote says that. Lebensraum referred to German expansion in the East. Hitler did not suggest to anyone in 1933 that he intended to invade west. You're reading into it what you want to.
Hitler was well aware that military expansion east would draw the ire of the Western powers and he was aware that this could bring about war with France or Britain. I've also already mentioned this earlier as well. But that is a far cry from suggesting Hitler had designs on France all along. And it's completely unsupported historically.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:45 pm to ChewyDante
quote:I would say the modernization of the German army was to fight only one other army on the mainland of Europe - France.
So far you have only suggested that German military actions taken after France's declaration upon Germany are somehow indicative of Hitler's preemptive desire to conquer France.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:52 pm to ninthward
quote:
I would say the modernization of the German army was to fight only one other army on the mainland of Europe - France.
Saying it doesn't make it so. The rearmament of Germany isn't some mystery. It's obvious that without a rebuilt military Germany would remain completely impotent in resolving any matters of geopolitics in their favor. Their military was built to fight whatever rival powers were around them. This included France, Britain, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and the USSR particularly, and all modern foes generally. To suggest it was rebuilt explicitly to attack France is, once again, completely unsubstantiated and really doesn't make any sense.
France was the biggest and most capable land army immediately bordering Germany, however, thus taking her heavily into account when building your armed forces would be quite rational and advisable.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:54 pm to Breesus
quote:I would take that bet
I'd feel safe betting a ton of money that atleast 70% of non history or political science majors couldn't tell you shite about him.
quote:it's not that bad.
I think you're vastly overestimating high school history education in this country.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 8:57 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
This included France, Britain, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and the USSR particularly, and all modern foes generally.
So Germany was preparing for war against France?
so the time we are discussing scratch Poland and Czech, and Russia because of non aggression pact, now who is left.?
This post was edited on 2/15/17 at 8:59 pm
Posted on 2/15/17 at 9:02 pm to ninthward
quote:
So Germany was preparing for war against France?
Germany was rebuilding it's armed forces to face ANY rival power that might threaten her. Yes, this absolutely included France. The United States prepares to fight specific geopolitical rivals as well, does that mean we are seeking war with China? No, it doesn't.
quote:
so the time we are discussing scratch Poland and Czech, and Russia because of non aggression pact, now who is left.?
Again, I'm not following your reasoning.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 9:04 pm to ChewyDante
quote:So you do not agree that there was an arms race on the european mainland between the wars?
Germany was rebuilding it's armed forces to face ANY rival power that might threaten her. Yes, this absolutely included France. The United States prepares to fight specific geopolitical rivals as well, does that mean we are seeking war with China? No, it doesn't.
Posted on 2/15/17 at 9:06 pm to SlowEasyConfident
Because the ones that were persecuted by Hitler escaped and took control of American entertainment and media?
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