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re: What are examples of “institutionalized racism” ?
Posted on 6/29/20 at 9:57 am to WaWaWeeWa
Posted on 6/29/20 at 9:57 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
You are asking a white person if he wants to change his skin color all other things being equal. What a strange question.
That’s not what I asked and you know it. I asked if you’d rather be treated like a black person or a white person is treated. Even both being from a well to do two parent household.
2
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:02 am to OleWar
quote:
You are annoying. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. What page of the Obama Justice Department 86 page report should I read?
It not institutionalized racism, but it is a really shitty police force and court system that focuses on collecting money rather than protecting citizens. It was actually an eye opening read.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:06 am to ItalianIceMaker
quote:
If you think there’s no such thing as institutional racism or racism let me ask you this- would you prefer to be treated by society as a white person or a black person? If you are being honest, we all know the answer. It’s rhetorical, so you don’t need to really answer the question
Your question is a fair one except you need to state what society you're presupposing.
If all society is a football game or track meet or something else blacks excel in, then black.
If one thinks the very structures in place in America are engineered (intentionally so or not) by white supremacy, then one has to explain why other ethnicities from around the world seem to have few reservations about immigrating here and why the white engineered structures only work in oppressing native born blacks?
Why are they not successful in oppressing other ethnicities?
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:07 am to Armytiger87
quote:
I keep hearing about “institutionalized racism” from the left but I am never given a concrete examples. My example is affirmative action, but I suspect that isn’t what those on the left are talking about.
Also, if the left controls all of the major American institutions (media, Hollywood, universities, major city governments etc etc), then who is really culpable for this supposed offense?
Discrepancy between arrest / charging rates for low level weed offenses between white and black people is the easiest example IMO
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:10 am to AlwysATgr
Because the immigrants are coming from such a bad place that even the discrepancy in how they are treated is superior to where they come from. However, that doesn't mean that we can't improve in providing everyone in the country accessible paths forward for improving their lives.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:13 am to ItalianIceMaker
quote:
I asked if you’d rather be treated like a black person or a white person is treated.
Depends on where I lived. Whites aren't the majority everywhere
Which is the issue with generalizations like "white privelege" and "institutional racism" is that they aren't universal and probably more dependent on SES status than simply race.
Poor people get worse treatment, black people are more likely to be poor, but you gotta include alll the variables.
The term is overly dramatized fiction in most cases.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:22 am to Sneaky__Sally
It's not just that they willingly come leaving behind their native structures, but those who immigrate legally find success here.
Why don't the supposed white engineered structures in America work in oppressing other ethnicities?
Why don't the supposed white engineered structures in America work in oppressing other ethnicities?
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:26 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
However, that doesn't mean that we can't improve in providing everyone in the country accessible paths forward for improving their lives.
1). Makes th assumption that black people and other races cann T succeed in America.
2). Replaces individual achievement with boosted performance. Seems racist
How do you propose we help more black people succeed?
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:30 am to RogerTheShrubber
(1) No, it assumes that it is harder by the numbers for a black person to succeed. That is a fact - largely due to larger portions growing up in poverty, single parent households, poor school systems, etc. Two people with the exact same mental capacity will have different chances of success / "expected value" sort of concept, growing up in different environments - we can't change this, but we can try to close the gap for all people.
(2) Again, no - I'd like to try and ensure more equal opportunity to all children, that will never be achieved, but we can make better strides. More investment in poor areas, better schools / education systems.
I personally am a fan of a well thought out UBI system - not one that replaces the need to work but one that helps reduce childhood stress, give 18 year olds who grew up poor some money to improve their lives with as a young adult, helps give someone who grew up with nothing a base income level to help them achieve success, pay for college / a trade school without going into massive debt, etc.
(2) Again, no - I'd like to try and ensure more equal opportunity to all children, that will never be achieved, but we can make better strides. More investment in poor areas, better schools / education systems.
I personally am a fan of a well thought out UBI system - not one that replaces the need to work but one that helps reduce childhood stress, give 18 year olds who grew up poor some money to improve their lives with as a young adult, helps give someone who grew up with nothing a base income level to help them achieve success, pay for college / a trade school without going into massive debt, etc.
This post was edited on 6/29/20 at 10:36 am
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:35 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
That is a fact - largely due to larger portions growing up in poverty, single parent households, poor school systems, etc.
What makes a school system poor?
How much money is spent per child per year? Because inner city schools almost always spend more per child. By that definition, black community schools are wealthier by comparison.
What is your metric for determining a poor school system?
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:38 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
More investment in poor areas, better schools / education systems, etc
This does absolutely nothing to improve the lives of anyone. We already spend more on education per capita than almost any other nation.
Your making a fatal error of buying into the noise that improving surroundings improves lives. You're not changing people.
Here's better idea
School choice
End war on drugs, erase possession and distribution records
Revamp welfare, tie it to job Training and/or education
Cut regulations to create more cottage industry.
Let people find a way to succeed. Stop throwing money at the issue.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:38 am to ItalianIceMaker
quote:
That’s not what I asked and you know it. I asked if you’d rather be treated like a black person or a white person is treated. Even both being from a well to do two parent household.
Treated how?
Like being easier to get into schools, being hired on quotas?
Yea if all other things were equal why would I not prefer those advantages? If you disagree, tell me how society treats black people that I should be concerned about?
I’m not talking about how some black people PERCEIVE they are being treated, I’m talking about actual facts that can be measured.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:38 am to meansonny
quote:
quote:
That is a fact - largely due to larger portions growing up in poverty, single parent households, poor school systems, etc.
What makes a school system poor?
How much money is spent per child per year? Because inner city schools almost always spend more per child. By that definition, black community schools are wealthier by comparison.
What is your metric for determining a poor school system?
lack of resources, bad systems / goals, pushing everyone to "college", lack of focus on trade school programs, lack of quality counseling, etc.
Education is also largely dependent on home life - so we would need kids to feel safer at home, less stressed out and hopeful of an accessible path forward.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:41 am to RogerTheShrubber
We are great at wasting money - we need wholesale reform and change.
All i've been talking about is wholesale reform. Revamp welfare by morphing it into a well thought out UBI program for everyone - let people determine how best to improve their lives. Offer counseling, financial education in junior high and high school - get rid of the useless classes. Have an introduction to programming be a required class, etc.
End war on drugs / legalize weed - its incredibly obvious how terrible that alone has been for our country.
All i've been talking about is wholesale reform. Revamp welfare by morphing it into a well thought out UBI program for everyone - let people determine how best to improve their lives. Offer counseling, financial education in junior high and high school - get rid of the useless classes. Have an introduction to programming be a required class, etc.
End war on drugs / legalize weed - its incredibly obvious how terrible that alone has been for our country.
This post was edited on 6/29/20 at 10:43 am
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:44 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Education is also largely dependent on home life
Government can’t fix bad parenting. I work 2 jobs and still make sure my kids do their homework. My dad seemed like he worked everyday, even weekends, and raised me much of my childhood as a single parent and did the same thing
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:45 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
End war on drugs / legalize weed - its incredibly obvious how terrible that alone has been for our country.
I agree 100%
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:45 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Discrepancy between arrest / charging rates for low level weed offenses between white and black people is the easiest example IMO
Can you link this data
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:47 am to Spankum
quote:
Failure to approve home loans in the same numbers for blacks as whites....
Do you think this is based off of repayment statistics or do you think it’s just because they don’t like the pigmentation of their skin?
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:48 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Education is also largely dependent on home life
Pretty much the only way to help this is by tying educational attainment with public assistance.
But we know how system will still get the blame.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 10:48 am to windshieldman
quote:
quote:
Education is also largely dependent on home life
Government can’t fix bad parenting. I work 2 jobs and still make sure my kids do their homework. My dad seemed like he worked everyday, even weekends, and raised me much of my childhood as a single parent and did the same thing
I'm not saying it is impossible, but I think we can make it easier on the children to see a hopeful path forward. Getting rid of our over-incarceration / low level weed shite at a minimum is the easiest way to start improving home life. If someone is resigned that their entire family grew up in the same shitty neighborhood and they are resigned that the same is inevitable for them, its hard to reach.
But, the interesting part IMO is that if you look at it long term (and that is the only way to look at this, things cannot be changed in the short term), the impact is theoretically compounding. If we take this generation, and put more resources into their hand - lets say we get an extra 15% success rate over those who would have succeeded anyway - then the kids of those people have a much, much stronger change of success. In addition, we get the same extra 15% over and above the people stuck in that same situation, you can extrapolate that out and in a few generations we are seeing far higher percentages of success and far higher percentages of equality of opportunity for each generation born.
This post was edited on 6/29/20 at 10:51 am
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