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re: Video game testers attempt to organize a union, get laid off, cry shenanigans.

Posted on 3/3/23 at 8:47 am to
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295573 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 8:47 am to
quote:

Sorry that facts trigger you Roger,


quote:

Among people with less education, a large percentage are foreign born. Consequently, immigration has exerted downward pressure on the wages of relatively low-skilled workers who are already in the country, regardless of their birthplace.


You'll never be triggered again when truth is on your side, Che. Mass immigration runs counter to higher wages.
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 8:48 am
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:02 am to
quote:

You'll never be triggered again when truth is on your side, Che. Mass immigration runs counter to higher wages.


I gotta laugh that you just quoted me a CBO Report thats subject matter was not only addressed in my link(pointing out over 70% of illegal and legal immigrants not filling direct substitute roles that would negatively effect wages, and that where it happens it is around a 5% ceiling), but a CBO Report you think helps your case, but that in actual context argues to legalize current illegal immigrants that have sector crossover. While also pointing out that immigration that is economically complimentary fills gaps in output and actually provides productivity increases and therefore wage increases writ large.

quote:

The effects of immigration on wages depend on the characteristics of the immigrants. To the extent that newly arrived workers have abilities similar to those of workers already in the country, immigration would have a negative effect on wages. To the extent that newly arrived workers have abilities that complement those of workers already in the country, immigration would foster productivity increases, having a positive effect on wages.

But it is difficult to disentangle the influence of immigration on wages from the influence of other forces, such as changes in technology and the global economy. A change in the legal immigration status of people who are already in the United States would affect their wages and productivity. People with legal immigration status are usually authorized to work; so are recipients of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA). People without legal immigration status are usually not authorized to work (although many work regardless). And if people were to acquire legal status, they would be better positioned to ask for more compensation and become likelier to be employed in jobs that best matched their skills, increasing their wages and productivity


Then going on to say how non-citizens often pay taxes they don’t get to take out of and therefore serve as a one way fund for entitlement users that this conversation started around.

Nice fail Roger….go tie up some more of those boats
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 9:08 am
Posted by EarlyCuyler3
Appalachia
Member since Nov 2017
27290 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:04 am to
quote:

So what is it that you do?




Answer the question Roger.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295573 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:13 am to
quote:

Then going on to say how non-citizens often pay taxes


Has nothing to do with stagnant wages, Gomer.

Mass immigration puts downward pressure on wages, period. Its math.. You can continue being a luddite.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295573 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:14 am to
quote:



Answer the question Roger.

What do you do, Che?

Answer the question. I've answered it 100 times, you're just illiterate.
Posted by Rebel
Graceland
Member since Jan 2005
141401 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:27 am to
quote:

RogerTheShrubber


Do your nuts hurt? Seems like having 2 mentally ill lefties swinging on them all day would be painful.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295573 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:29 am to
quote:


Do your nuts hurt? Seems like having 2 mentally ill lefties swinging on them all day would be painful.


Nah, they hit like a girl.

Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:31 am to
quote:

Mass immigration puts downward pressure on wages, period. Its math.. You can continue being a luddite.


Not according to YOUR OWN link it doesn’t lol…that is only true, and in a limited capacity, for economic cross-sections where immigrant labor is a substitute. Most immigrants fill complimentary roles that have net gains on productivity and wages. And there’s still the issue that you also skipped over, which is that huge swaths of the poorest, lowest income areas of the country have very minimal to no immigrant footprint. Yet wages are at the bottom end of the legal spectrum

This is why talking points and basing your politics on simple narratives and “feels” and “emotions” gets you into trouble. Reality is more complicated.

There is truth, situationally, that immigrants can be one of many downward pressures on wages. However, the idea they are this simple narrative panacea to explain all the ills you want explained is fiction. Fiction often perpetuated by people that think their audience is comprised of bitter simpleton rubes incapable of thinking beyond emotion and wanting someone else to point the finger at than the C-Suite execs working tirelessly behind the scenes to do much more than just import labor to keep their labor force wages as low as possible.

And even if we took your statement at face value, who hires those immigrants Roger? It’s not the unions and McDonalds employees, it’s the business owner and their staffing departments. It all goes back to the same central causation, whether it’s firms colluding to keep wages depressed horizontally and vertically in their industries, lobbying for minimizing liability or regulations to fire their workforce, keeping minimum wage laws low, opportunistically gouging prices, regulatory capture, consolidation and monopolization, or abusing immigrant labor pools and visa programs. You are so consumed with empty talking points you see the trees and miss the forest, even when standing in it.

…Now those boats won’t tie up themselves, and those boots won’t get licked without you, so chop, chop!

This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 9:33 am
Posted by TDTOM
Member since Jan 2021
24559 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:33 am to
quote:

…Now those boats won’t tie up themselves, and those boots won’t get licked without you, so chop, chop!


You post like a 10 year old.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61274 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:36 am to
quote:

keep licking that boot!

I thought licking the boot was only about supporting cops.

Somehow you nimrods can’t quite figure out that wage increases are causing massive inflation, which means folks can’t pay for food, housing, etc.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295573 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:38 am to
quote:

Not according to YOUR OWN link it doesn’t lol…


You're an economic simpleton.

quote:

Immigration helps the U.S. economy, but it’s not as good for individual workers, particularly those at the low end of the wage scale for whom the increased competition for jobs leaves them worse off, the Congressional Budget Office said

quote:

In sum, the bargaining power of U.S. workers is undercut by millions of unauthorized workers and guestworkers


Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295573 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:39 am to
quote:



You post like a 10 year old.


Most 10 year olds who get an allowance understand economics better than he.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295573 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:42 am to
quote:

keep licking that boot!

I thought licking the boot was only about supporting cops.


Marxist are still stuck in this labor vs management thing they've been fighting for over 100 years. If you support sound economics, you're now a "bootlicker."

Theyre not capable of seeing issues outside of that framework.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 9:56 am to
quote:

You're an economic simpleton.


Says the guy that keeps self-owning himself

From your link again(I’m starting to realize why you arent posting direct links, your rapid Google fingers aren’t finding the evidence your talking points claim so you are strategically editing them because in full context they don’t actually support what you assert in the manner you assert it)

quote:

In sum, the bargaining power of U.S. workers is undercut when millions of unauthorized workers and guestworkers


The rest of your quote:

quote:

6% of the U.S. labor force—are underpaid by employers and cannot safely complain to the Department of Labor or sue employers that exploit them.

The Trump administration has pushed a bigoted and xenophobic narrative that pits immigrants against native-born workers under the false premise that the economy is a zero-sum game with a fixed number of jobs. This leads to predictably foolish and cruel policies—such as more and bigger worksite raids by ICE—that don’t improve conditions for workers but only serve to increase the power employers have over workers.28 A better and more humane response starts from realizing how much of today’s immigration policy is driven by low-road employers who aim to benefit at the expense of both migrants and U.S. workers. From this perspective, one can see that improving labor standards for unauthorized immigrants and guestworkers will lift the floor for all workers, which will increase bargaining power and raise wages.

The most transformative solutions require congressional action. Congress should pass legislation granting lawful permanent resident (LPR) status to the current unauthorized immigrant population; this would include recipients of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals and those who currently have temporary protected status. Granting LPR status to workers without status would raise their wages and improve labor standards for all similarly situated workers.29 Even if unauthorized immigrants were not granted LPR status through legislation but were at least provided with federal employment authorization documents by the Department of Homeland Security, their wages would rise significantly and economic outcomes would improve overall.30





And literally from the first paragraph

quote:

A recent comprehensive study conducted by a number of prominent scholars for the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine found that levels of immigration have only very small impacts on wages and employment.1 However, in certain local labor markets and industries where a significant share of workers are migrants who do not have access to worker protections and basic labor rights—either because they are unauthorized immigrant workers or because they are migrants employed through nonimmigrant, temporary work visa programs (i.e., “guestworkers”)—the migrant workers’ lack of rights makes it difficult for them to bargain effectively for decent wages, and their weak leverage spills over to undercut the leverage of U.S. workers—i.e., citizens and immigrants who are lawful permanent residents.



Literally what I said again, what CATO said two pages ago, there is an effect, it is not wide but concentrated in substitute industries with high migrant concentrations, whereas in complimentary areas it increases productivity, GDP, and through that wages, and the solution from your own links is to stop shielding employers from exploiting immigrant labor. Focus on business-side reforms that would stop employers from exploitative labor practices and provide legal protections for labor to better negotiate wages in the industries that are affected by this.

This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 9:57 am
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295573 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 10:05 am to
quote:


Says the guy that keeps self-owning himself


Millions of uneducated, unskilled workers puts extreme downward pressure on wages, luddite.

Its economic law and doesn't change just because it triggers you.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 10:07 am to
quote:

Somehow you nimrods can’t quite figure out that wage increases are causing massive inflation, which means folks can’t pay for food, housing, etc.


Nah, it’s far more complicated than that. Supply chain shocks, Covid, disruptions to key inputs due to global conflicts, firm opportunism, technological disruptions, transportation costs, strategic trade realignments, a rise in protectionist policies, and rising wages are all factors.

But even if we took your claim as the singular causation, we circle right back to what set off this melt parade, low wages that are not enough to live off of means the tab gets picked up elsewhere, and that elsewhere is through government entitlement programs.

Posted by A Smoke Break
Lafayette
Member since Nov 2018
2175 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 10:09 am to
quote:

Forgive my ignorance, but is a union really necessary for people who play video games for a living?



I wouldn't wish gametesting on my worst enemy. That job paid absolute shite and consisted of trying to find glitches in sports games. Like running the same play for 8 hours straight in madden but running out of bounds at a specific yard line. Imagine doing that kind of shite for 8 straight hours. I'd want to kill myself.

All for like 13 an hour.


Gametesting is the bottom of the barrel. And that's mostly what the ea office in BR did.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
295573 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 10:10 am to
quote:

low wages that are not enough to live off of


the childish views of economics are pretty damn funny on this site.

Marx wrote your favorite book on Econ 160 years ago. Its outdated and he wasn't even an economist.

Time for you poverty stricken populists to grow up and realize you have the power to increase your worth, not your employer
Posted by TDTOM
Member since Jan 2021
24559 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Forgive my ignorance, but is a union really necessary for people who play video games for a living?


quote:

I wouldn't wish gametesting on my worst enemy. That job paid absolute shite and consisted of trying to find glitches in sports games. Like running the same play for 8 hours straight in madden but running out of bounds at a specific yard line. Imagine doing that kind of shite for 8 straight hours. I'd want to kill myself.

All for like 13 an hour.


Gametesting is the bottom of the barrel. And that's mostly what the ea office in BR did.



So, no?
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 3/3/23 at 10:53 am to
quote:

Millions of uneducated, unskilled workers puts extreme downward pressure on wages, luddite. Its economic law and doesn't change just because it triggers you



And yet three tries now and not a single piece of “evidence” you have posted backs up your assertions in the manner you have (over)stated it…In fact, they all have roundly and starkly disagreed with you when taken in full context and not your cherry picked sentence or two.

You trying to whittle down a whole subset of economic research and theory to an ignorant(and incorrect) oversimplification simply shows how absolutely out of your fricking league you are on this

As all of your ”evidence” aligns and shows, the wage impact of immigration is complex and dependent on factors such as being substitutional or complimentary, skilled or unskilled, legal protections of the immigrant workforce, industry composition of the immigrant workforce, net impact considerations on GDP, market efficiency, reductions of costs of goods and services to natives, and boosts to innovation etc.

And since you want to claim some sort of authority, here’s an actual Economics report/text explaining it to you:

quote:

Economic theory points to the importance of substitutability and, conversely, complementarity between different kinds of workers in determining the impact of immigration on the wages and employment of natives.4 Where immigrants and natives are substitutes, adverse wage and employment effects may result; the more closely immigrants’ skills and abilities match those of natives, the more adverse these effects are expected to be. This raises the issue of how empirical researchers measure skill and identify groups that are potentially in competition, as well as how they model the extent of substitutability between them. Thus, we consider these issues before delving into the empirical findings on the impact of immigrant inflows on natives and prior immigrants.



quote:

Empirical research in recent decades suggests that findings remain by and large consistent with those in The New Americans (National Research Council, 1997) in that, when measured over a period of more than 10 years, the impact of immigration on the wages of natives overall is very small.

National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2017. The Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. LINK
This post was edited on 3/3/23 at 10:58 am
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