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Message
re: Vader’s Model Desk: Semovente L40 da 47/32
Posted on 5/9/25 at 9:28 am to TigerHornII
Posted on 5/9/25 at 9:28 am to TigerHornII
Use of horse cavalry on the wide-open spaces of Russia is not crazy, in fact, it can be very effective. Of course, nobody is doing a Cavalry Charge, but, the horse is a good mode of transport for infantry going off-road.
Second, yes, during 1941 in Russia, this Italian AFV would have faced mostly the obsolete Soviet tanks. It could not trade blows with any of the Soviet tanks armed with the 37mm or 45mm main gun, because the Italian AFV was open-topped with very thin skin. However, you are correct in that the Italian main gun, the 47mm, which I think was a Czech-made model, could knock out those obsolete Soviet tanks.
The tragedy-side of the story is the part about this particular model by Darth represents an AFV in an Italian front line unit in 1942, when the Soviet Army was fielding the T-34 in much larger numbers than in 1941. This Italian AFV could not survive very long on the battlefield vs a Soviet T-34 company.
Second, yes, during 1941 in Russia, this Italian AFV would have faced mostly the obsolete Soviet tanks. It could not trade blows with any of the Soviet tanks armed with the 37mm or 45mm main gun, because the Italian AFV was open-topped with very thin skin. However, you are correct in that the Italian main gun, the 47mm, which I think was a Czech-made model, could knock out those obsolete Soviet tanks.
The tragedy-side of the story is the part about this particular model by Darth represents an AFV in an Italian front line unit in 1942, when the Soviet Army was fielding the T-34 in much larger numbers than in 1941. This Italian AFV could not survive very long on the battlefield vs a Soviet T-34 company.
2
Posted on 5/9/25 at 9:31 am to SoFla Tideroller
Yeah. The bottom line is Italy simply wasn’t ready for war when they joined in 1940. The irony of this is Mussolini was fully aware Italy wasn’t ready for war and had warned Hitler it would be at least another 3-5 years before they would be. But he still jumped into the war after it became obvious Grant was going to knock France out of the war in June of 1940. Mussolini miscalculated British resolve to keep fighting, even if France had sued for peace. Thus, he dragged Italy into a war he knew full well they were woefully unprepared to fight.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 9:37 am to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
I just purchased my first airbrush this week for gaming miniature painting. Hopefully I’ll be able to knock out models faster and more consistently, but I go through long lulls in my hobbying.
Haven’t used the airbrush yet.
Make sure you thoroughly clean your gun anytime you use it. What I do is after I’m done painting, I immediately flush it with warm water, this is good since I use acrylic paints. I then use this stuff…
I use a dropper to put about half a teaspoonful into the paint cup. First I use a hobby q-tip to wipe out any paint residue, then I spray the cleaning solution out through the nozzle, leaving jsit a little bit in the bottom to make sure nothing dries in the spray nozzle. Also, every so often I’ll remove the needle and wipe it down with the cleaning solution and remove the nozzle and soak it in a small amount of cleaning solution.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 11:10 am to Darth_Vader
Great build. 
I learned something new today also, after so many years of reading about WW2 armor I just found out today that the L40 was an open top!!
I thought it was a closed top like the Stug.
I learned something new today also, after so many years of reading about WW2 armor I just found out today that the L40 was an open top!!
I thought it was a closed top like the Stug.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 11:23 am to Champagne
It was an Austrian design by Bohler that was later licensed built in Italy. It did alright in the early years, but was soon outclassed as has been mentioned.
Italy wasn't the only nation that got caught flat footed by the rapid advancement of tank design. Germany was woefully unprepared for the evolution of Russian tanks. Their regimental anti tank crews relied on the 37mm gun and, to a much lesser extent, the 50 mm gun. To their credit, they rapidly developed, produced, and deployed their excellent 75mm AT gun, but Italy did not have the industrial base to do the same. They had a 75mm and 90mm gun that, like German, came from their anti aircraft arm, but they couldn't get near enough of them produced.
Once germany started increasing the size and protection of it's tanks, the Allies had to match it with their AT capabilities. WW2 made it glaringly obvious that the side who could leverage technological advancements in mass quantities with the logistics to get it where it needed to be was going to win.
Italy wasn't the only nation that got caught flat footed by the rapid advancement of tank design. Germany was woefully unprepared for the evolution of Russian tanks. Their regimental anti tank crews relied on the 37mm gun and, to a much lesser extent, the 50 mm gun. To their credit, they rapidly developed, produced, and deployed their excellent 75mm AT gun, but Italy did not have the industrial base to do the same. They had a 75mm and 90mm gun that, like German, came from their anti aircraft arm, but they couldn't get near enough of them produced.
Once germany started increasing the size and protection of it's tanks, the Allies had to match it with their AT capabilities. WW2 made it glaringly obvious that the side who could leverage technological advancements in mass quantities with the logistics to get it where it needed to be was going to win.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 12:43 pm to DakIsNoLB
quote:
WW2 made it glaringly obvious that the side who could leverage technological advancements in mass quantities with the logistics to get it where it needed to be was going to win.
You can't leave out combined arms tactics and C2 from this. The Soviets lost battle after battle, to the tune of nearly 25,000 tanks destroyed and 3M+ POWs, with far superior tanks and greater numbers in every respect in 1941-42. In every case, the German use of combined arms - tanks supported by infantry, artillery, and air - along with better C2 (command and control) was the decisive factor. Even accounting for exaggerations from both sides, Soviet to German loss ratios ranged from 6:1 to 20:1, depending on which battle it was.
By the time of Moscow, the USSR was on the brink of collapse. A couple more trainloads of fuel to the Panzer divisions outside of Moscow and a bare handful of tanks, or a better commanding general than List for the Caucuses offensive, and it would have been game over for Stalin.
I just finished Forczyk's first book on the topic. As Wellington said after Waterloo, "It was the nearest-run thing you ever saw in your life".
Posted on 5/9/25 at 12:53 pm to Champagne
The Soviet armored units of 1942 were still dominated by their light tanks, which themselves were pretty thin-skinned, but to your point, this thing was obsolete for sure. Most of the 1942 battles were fought with T-34's comprising less than a third of the armor, with KV-1s another 10% at best. That's still not a happy place for these Italians if that fraction of modern armor shows up in front of your position!
As for horse cavalry, they dropped it as fast as they could. It was a desperate measure for desperate times.
As for horse cavalry, they dropped it as fast as they could. It was a desperate measure for desperate times.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 1:01 pm to TigerHornII
My guess is that this Italian AFV could not survive even a Soviet 37mm anti-aircraft gun hit on its frontal armor. A 45mm hit would brew it up, is my estimation.
I would not care to be anywhere near a battlefield as a crew member of this AFV.
Wonderfully crafted model. Thanks, Darth.
I would not care to be anywhere near a battlefield as a crew member of this AFV.
Wonderfully crafted model. Thanks, Darth.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 1:07 pm to Darth_Vader
You must admit this is not one of your better efforts:
quote:Seriously, you got much better by the end of the build.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 1:11 pm to Darth_Vader
Since this was an Italian self-propelled gun, did it fight for both the axis and allies?
The Italian Battleship Roma was a looker in it's day
The Italian Battleship Roma was a looker in it's day
This post was edited on 5/9/25 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 5/9/25 at 1:13 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
As for weathering, I used a small piece of natural sponge to dab on dark iron to get the chipping effect on the paint. I used Tamiya brown panel accent on the lines, rivets, etc. I used Flory “grime” wash on the vehicle interior an. flory “dark dirt” wash on the exterior. I applied both using a small piece of natural sponge to dab the washes over all surfaces.
I've never used that stuff as I just make mine out of heavily thinned enamels which dry slower than acrylics. Did you clearcoat it beforehand?
Posted on 5/9/25 at 1:17 pm to Darth_Vader
Love your work! I also enjoy the background on each you provide. Thanks for sharing.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 1:45 pm to TigerHornII
quote:
You can't leave out combined arms tactics and C2 from this. The Soviets lost battle after battle, to the tune of nearly 25,000 tanks destroyed and 3M+ POWs, with far superior tanks and greater numbers in every respect in 1941-42. In every case, the German use of combined arms - tanks supported by infantry, artillery, and air - along with better C2 (command and control) was the decisive factor. Even accounting for exaggerations from both sides, Soviet to German loss ratios ranged from 6:1 to 20:1, depending on which battle it was.
That was certainly novel at the time and caught both France and Russia flat footed. Russia was worse off from their military purge plus keeping the bulk of their forces on the frontiers even when Germany starter faltering on their side of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and Stalin was told something's going on. The majority of soviet tanks at the outset of Barbarossa weren't far superior. The KV series and T-34 were not available in large numbers and readiness rates of all tanks was very poor. The advantage of Soviet tank numbers at the time.
quote:
By the time of Moscow, the USSR was on the brink of collapse. A couple more trainloads of fuel to the Panzer divisions outside of Moscow and a bare handful of tanks, or a better commanding general than List for the Caucuses offensive, and it would have been game over for Stalin.
All true, but that goes back to logistics.
quote:
I just finished Forczyk's first book on the topic. As Wellington said after Waterloo, "It was the nearest-run thing you ever saw in your life".
It was a very neither thing despite all of the Soviet missteps. My original comment was largely geared towards once the Allies got their legs under them, they out technoed and out logisticked (neither are words, I know) the Axis powers. Their early advantages could no longer offset that.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 1:53 pm to TigerHornII
Adding on to your point:
Radio communication in every single German tank helped them a great deal when fighting against the Soviet tank units. In 1941, only the platoon leader of five tanks had a radio. More radios were added as the war went on, but, it was a slow process before every Soviet tank had a radio.
It helped the German operational and tactical prospects that they could communicate on the battlefield when the enemy could not.
Radio communication in every single German tank helped them a great deal when fighting against the Soviet tank units. In 1941, only the platoon leader of five tanks had a radio. More radios were added as the war went on, but, it was a slow process before every Soviet tank had a radio.
It helped the German operational and tactical prospects that they could communicate on the battlefield when the enemy could not.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 1:55 pm to bad93ex
quote:
did it fight for both the axis and allies?
I would be surprised if any of these AFVs survived to fight against the Axis in late 1943 and later.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 3:39 pm to Champagne
quote:
Radio communication in every single German tank helped them a great deal when fighting against the Soviet tank units. In 1941, only the platoon leader of five tanks had a radio. More radios were added as the war went on, but, it was a slow process before every Soviet tank had a radio.
It helped the German operational and tactical prospects that they could communicate on the battlefield when the enemy could not.
Yep. German command track radios were 30 Watt, Soviet command track radios were 3 Watt. If they worked at all. When they did work, it took the Soviets until the. end of 1942 to learn to stop broadcasting in the open in plain language.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 3:58 pm to Champagne
quote:
did it fight for both the axis and allies?
quote:
I would be surprised if any of these AFVs survived to fight against the Axis in late 1943 and later.
After Italy capitulated, the Germans took over the factory were theses were being produced. So, the Wehrmacht did in fact use them. But they were relegated to fighting Tito’s partisans in Yugoslavia. This kit had instructions on a paint scheme for a German version.
This post was edited on 5/9/25 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 5/9/25 at 3:58 pm to DakIsNoLB
quote:
That was certainly novel at the time and caught both France and Russia flat footed. Russia was worse off from their military purge plus keeping the bulk of their forces on the frontiers even when Germany starter faltering on their side of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and Stalin was told something's going on. The majority of soviet tanks at the outset of Barbarossa weren't far superior. The KV series and T-34 were not available in large numbers and readiness rates of all tanks was very poor. The advantage of Soviet tank numbers at the time.
Prior to the purge, the Soviets had developed a battle philosophy very similar to the Germans called "Deep Battle". Unfortunately, they killed almost everyone who understood it, including the guy who came up with it. They didn't start implementing it fully again until 1943.
At the start of Barbarossa, the Russians had around 1200 T-34s and KV-1/2's out of their 22k odd tanks. I've made the point several times ITT that they never had a majority of T-34s in their units '41-'42. However, in '41, when they did show up, they were all but invulnerable to what the Germans had readily at hand. It took a while for some bright Wehrmacht officer to get the idea to use 88 mm flak guns, which worked but could be risky. Had the Soviets properly exploited their vastly superior tanks, even in their small numbers, with better C2, combined arms, and yes, logistics, those first two years would have been very different.
quote:
All true, but that goes back to logistics.
Replace List on the Caucuses offensive, and that might well have worked despite logistics. The Germans came within a few km of cutting off 20% of Russia's oil supply, and within a day or two of cutting off another 60% of it.
quote:
It was a very neither thing despite all of the Soviet missteps. My original comment was largely geared towards once the Allies got their legs under them, they out technoed and out logisticked (neither are words, I know) the Axis powers. Their early advantages could no longer offset that.
Not entirely sure what you meant there in the first sentence. Had either Moscow or the Caucuses oil fields fallen, no practical amount of Lend-Lease would have saved Stalin. The Caucuses would have meant the end of offensive operations by the Red Army. As it was, we supplied 100% of their avgas. We could not have supplied them with enough diesel to keep the tanks running.
WRT to Moscow, that would have shattered already-fragile Red Army morale, and possibly would have caused a coup. Things were so bad in the Red Army that the NKVD executed more Soviet troops for various real and imagined acts than the US had in total casualties for the war.
This post was edited on 5/9/25 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 5/9/25 at 4:18 pm to Darth_Vader
That is very satisfying. Awesome work as always.
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