re: Thinkin about becoming an ordained minister. Need advice.

quote:

---

Church fathers were interpreting Genesis non-literally before modern science existed, so you cannot claim the allegorizing Genesis is a retreat in the face of scientific discovery. Your entire argument falls a part with that simple fact. Christianity does not fall apart because the genealogy is inaccurate or incomplete, it simply means that the bible is not inerrant.

---

No matter when they began calling it allegory is irrelevant when the point is that you can't cherry pick which parts to use. If the genealogy of the Old Testament originates with Adam and Eve, and they are allegorical, then every major character in the Old Testament is likewise "allegorical." And since that family lineage continues on to Jesus Christ, so is the New Testament. You can't have it both ways.

quote:

---

He doesn't offer any specifics, he just states there are errors. I don't know why atheists expect 3000 year old stories to offer any shred of science when that science would have been way over their heads. Genesis is a simplified story that people 3000 years ago could understand.

---

This is exactly the point. Every culture known to man throughout history has attempted to offer explanations for the world around them, and each culture's "gods" were as real to them as Christianity's. The Genesis story is "simple" because it was that historical culture's attempt. And it's simple because it is the word of man, not the word of any god. And for Christianity to take root, its "god" had to be at least as impressive as those who preceded him - which is why so much of Jesus' story is borrowed from those before him. Some of it virtually word for word.

The story is simple because 3000 years ago man man couldn't grasp anything more than that. You expect God to tell Noah all about quantum physics and have Noah relate that to primitive man? You're foolish to expect anything else. Science is science and faith is faith, fools confuse the two.

quote:

---

This us unequivocally incorrect

---

What is incorrect about it?

quote:

---

Everything. Jesus' story is nothing like the others.

---

Let's see if you can pass my quiz (even though I've already given you the answers)...

1. Identify the person described here:

-He was miraculously conceived by a virgin mother
-He was of diving incarnation
-Of royal descent
-Angels sang songs of praise at his birth
-Visited by neighboring shepherds
-Upon his birth, his death was sought by the reigning monarch who feared
that he would be supplanted in his kingdom by the divine child
-Decree made for mass killing of infants in an attempt to extinguish his
life
-His mission was the salvation of man
-Washed the feet of his disciples
-Died by man and for man
-Performed miracles, healed the sick, raised the dead

2. Identify the person described here:

-Born to a virgin mother
-Conception announced by divine messenger
-Of royal descent
-Visited at birth by wise men who brought gifts
-Fasted in the wilderness
-Was tempted
-Performed miracles
-Sages from afar came to worship at his birth
-Began his ministry around the age of 30
-Accompanied by a band of disciples
-Traveled from place to place and preached to large multitudes
-Preached the "Sermon on the Mount"
-Mission was to establish the kingdom of righteousness
-Promised salvation to all and eternal life
-Commanded his disciples to go forth and preach his doctrine in all places
to all men
-Preached to "return good for evil" and "love your enemies"
-Preached the commandments not to steal, kill, lie, commit adultery
-Scriptures preach story of the prodigal son
-Uses analogy of the mustard seed
-Followed by a converted courtesan
-Betrayed by a traitor
-Holy trinity

3. Identify the person described here:

-He was divine
-Birth attended by magis and angels
-Of royal descent
-Deified after his death
-Followed by a band of devoted disciples
-Established the Golden Rule: "What you do not like when done to yourself,
do not to others"

4. Identify the person described here:

-Miraculously conceived
-Human incarnation of god
-his gospel was called "The Way"
-Ascended into heaven upon his death
-Preached that soul attains immortality through renunciation of worldly
riches and pleasures
-Performed exorcism of evil spirits
-Espouses Holy Trinity

5. Identify the person described here:

-Preached that universe is ruled by two powers: one is light, the other
darkness; one is good, the other evil
-There is perpetual battle between these powers for the soul of man
-Man was given free will to choose between good and evil
-Those choosing good are rewarded with everlasting life in heaven; those
choosing evil suffer in hell
-Those in between stay in purgatory until the last judgment
-He was sent by God as a savior to mankind
-Supernatural origin and powers
-Declared that God hears and answers prayer
-He performed miracles
-Was tempted by Satan
-Was slain by those he came to save
-Principle doctrines were:
-principal duty of man is to obey the word and commandments of God
-those who obey the word of God will live forever
-God exercises his rule on Earth through the workings of the Divine
Spirit
-Espoused baptism, communion, and confirmation


6. Identify the person described here:

-Birth celebrated on December 25th
-Born to a virgin mother
-Magi kneel before him and anoint him with gifts
-Baptism to free from sin
-Sacred meal of bread and water
-Held Sunday as sacred
-Concept of heaven and hell
-Flood at beginning of history
-Immortality of the soul, last judgment, resurrection of the dead

_________________________________________________________________

Then you believe the Adam and Eve story is true and meshes with modern science?

quote:

---

No matter when they began calling it allegory is irrelevant

---

It is very relevant when you say allegorizing Genesis is a retreat in the face of modern scientific discovery. It is not. That was my point.

quote:

---

If the genealogy of the Old Testament originates with Adam and Eve, and they are allegorical, then every major character in the Old Testament is likewise "allegorical."

---

That's a slippery slope bro. The earliest character in the bible we have evidence for is King David. We can't just say he is allegorical because his supposed ancestors are allegorical.

Me personally, when I look at Genesis, I see chapters 1-11 as complete myth/legend whereas there is some loose truth or pseudo history in chapters 12-50. As for Christ's genealogy, I go with Matthew, and trace Jesus' genealogy back to Abraham (there actually might have been a guy named Abram/Abraham who founded the Jewish religion/people).