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Started By
Message
re: Student Loan Extended (Again)!
Posted on 4/7/22 at 3:28 pm to TH03
Posted on 4/7/22 at 3:28 pm to TH03
quote:
Your argument is seriously "I didn't experience it so it isn't real"?
It has no bearing on the conversation. Didn’t say anything about my personal experience.
I’ve stated my argument numerous times and it has nothing at all to do with whatever it is you are trying to say.
0
Posted on 4/7/22 at 3:33 pm to AMS
quote:
oceanman can hardly even acknowledge objective facts when spoon fed direct quotes. I expect a near 0 if not 0 amount of meaningful discussion with that poster. oceanmans mind is made up facts be damned.
Here is a fact: a federally subsidized student loan is a legal contract in which the borrower agrees to pay back the principal and interest of the loaned funds.
The only thing that can change this is the underlying law that governs the contract. So yes, it’s an enforceable contract and no, there is not specific language discussing blanket forgiveness and if there were you would have quoted it. But there isn’t. Not that complicated.
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 4/7/22 at 3:44 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Yes I acknowledged that the contract was governed by the law. But the law does not currently provide for blanket forgiveness.
I’m not moving the goalposts and certainly not the one with reading comprehension issues. The contract says you have to pay it back. Says it multiple times. You provided language about forbearance and deferment, not for forgiveness. There are no clauses for blanket forgiveness or else you would have provided that language. At best, what you have provided is the potential for another document OUTSIDE of the agreement that has yet to be drafted or executed to alter your existing contract. But for now, you are bound by the terms within that contract.
contract explicitly specifies that terms and conditions are determined by the HEA.
HEA terms and conditions include waiving debts.
I have directly quoted the waiver of debts language at least 3 times, you just continue refusing to acknowledge it.
HEA is already enacted and is agreed upon as terms and conditions of the student loan contract. it does not need any future drafted legislation although that remains a possibility which is also agreed to within the contract. in the contract you agree that terms may change. if the terms change, they were agreed upon in the contract. there is no argument to make that the gov waiving their debt is non-fulfillment of the contract, it was all agreed to in the contract.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 3:58 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Here is a fact: a federally subsidized student loan is a legal contract in which the borrower agrees to pay back the principal and interest of the loaned funds.
true, but the same legal contract includes terms for forgiveness, waiving debts, deferment etc.
quote:
there is not specific language discussing blanket forgiveness and if there were you would have quoted it. But there isn’t. Not that complicated.
4th time quoting explicit language within the contract, but i suspect you will also ignore it this time like the other 3 times.
quote:
LAWS THAT APPLY TO THIS MPN AND OTHER LEGAL INFORMATION (BRR Item 1)
The terms of this MPN are determined in accordance with the Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended (the HEA),
terms in the HEA which are agreed upon in the contract:
quote:
§ 1082. Legal powers and responsibilities
(a) General powers
In the performance of, and with respect to, the
functions, powers, and duties, vested in him by
this part, the Secretary may—
(6) enforce, pay, compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand,
however acquired, including any equity or any
right of redemption.
You are correct, it is not that complicated. terms of the contract include power to waive any right, title, claim, lien, or demand.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 4:12 pm to AMS
You said this
quote:
but potential leniency is specifically a benefit of federal loans over private loans and IS included in the contract for taking out student loans from the government.
quote:
HEA terms and conditions include waiving debts.
I have directly quoted the waiver of debts language at least 3 times, you just continue refusing to acknowledge it.
NOT included in the contract. What you are citing is the potential for the executive branch to be able to modify loans, not the clear authority to fully forgive them or any intention to do so. What’s the precedent here? Has Congress or the executive branch made these modifications of forgiveness in the past? If an order was made could it be challenged? By who?
So yes you are correct, just like every contract written in this country, it has to in accordance with the applicable laws. All of the modifications that have been made regarding forgiveness to my knowledge have been made by Congress through amendments with detailed specific criteria.
So again yes, I concede that potentially these loans could be forgiven, but as I have stated about a half dozen times, there is currently no mechanism to do so within the contract and there is no leniency within it as you described, and anything to change that would face significant legal challenges .
So I’m summary, you owe the money unless something gets done before November
Posted on 4/7/22 at 4:14 pm to OceanMan
i haven't read this back and forth but i think it's very cute that people still act like laws, contracts, and established procedure mean a thing in 2022
Posted on 4/7/22 at 4:22 pm to OceanMan
quote:
NOT included in the contract. What you are citing is the potential for the executive branch to be able to modify loans,
in the contract you agree that the terms of the loan are determined by the HEA... the HEA has terms regarding waiving debt. there is no modification that needs done.
its really that simple. I have quoted the specific language more times than necessary. its painfully clear you refuse to acknowledge it.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 4:25 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
i haven't read this back and forth but i think it's very cute that people still act like laws, contracts, and established procedure mean a thing in 2022
Well yeah. We are having a stupid argument that could fairly be called semantics at this point but I’m right and it’s been a long time since I took part in taking a thread off the rails.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 4:34 pm to AMS
quote:
its really that simple. I have quoted the specific language more times than necessary. its painfully clear you refuse to acknowledge it.
Yeah, but the specific language doesn’t agree with your initial position that the language is in the contract. It’s not, and the only chance it has to be forgiven is DC trying to buy votes. The mechanism you referred to is not as simple as you seem to think it is. If it were done by the admin, it will be met with lawsuits.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 4:44 pm to BOZ4LSU
quote:
Student Loan Extended (Again)!
Posted on 4/7/22 at 4:45 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Yeah, but the specific language doesn’t agree with your initial position that the language is in the contract. It’s not,
language agreed to in the contract: 'HEA determines terms of the loan'. and you somehow think that means you are not agreeing to the HEA terms within the contract? it is included, you just refuse to acknowledge that fact.
i said that potential for leniency is included in the contract, which it is, as you are agreeing to the terms of HEA in that contract which offer terms for leniency.
This post was edited on 4/7/22 at 5:03 pm
Posted on 4/7/22 at 5:48 pm to AMS
quote:
i said that potential for leniency is included in the contract, which it is, as you are agreeing to the terms of HEA in that contract which offer terms for leniency.
The terms of your contract are in your contract. To bring it full circle, you are operating under the false premise that the secretary has the authority to discharge all debt based upon vague language and is also unprecedented and invoked would certainly be met with lawsuits. The rule you keep citing was passed by Congress. Forgiving all loans written in accordance with the act would be a material change in the law which would require a congressional act. I completely understand the Democrats are desperate and may try this before November, but that notion aside there is absolutely nothing documented that should lead you to believe the outcome will be anything different than what is stated within the document you signed.
It’s a contract and a promissory note just like any other and always has been. Please stop pretending as if I don’t have a strong grasp on this.
Posted on 4/7/22 at 6:58 pm to OceanMan
quote:
The terms of your contract are in your contract. you are operating under the false premise that the secretary has the authority to discharge all debt based upon vague language
its listed under their general legal powers in the HEA. its not vague, although it is broad.
seems like you are finally coming around to the fact that the language does exist and is included within the contract.
quote:
unprecedented
maybe true, but unprecedented things can happen its literally how precedent is established.
quote:
Please stop pretending as if I don’t have a strong grasp on this.
you were claiming earlier the terms are not included in the contract at all.
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