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Started By
Message
re: O-T electricians, need advise to replace my breaker box.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 1:49 pm to THRILLHO
Posted on 12/2/15 at 1:49 pm to THRILLHO
quote:Two different electricians told me it's common in this neighborhood. Older neighborhood in Laffy BTW.
I've never heard of a residence getting 3 phase power.
0
Posted on 12/2/15 at 1:54 pm to ike221
quote:Nope. And I don't have grounds on my wiring. Every outlet and switch is 2 wires, black and white. House was built in '60. At least it doesn't have aluminum wiring.
When you purchased your house, did the inspector have an electrician come out and upgrade some of your breakers to arc faults for the lighting circuits.
I checked that before buying, would have been a deal breaker.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 1:57 pm to LuckySo-n-So
quote:Is that possible? I was told 3 phase box and 3 phase unit, or single and single.
Make sure you have extra room in the new panel and you can go back with single phase unit.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 1:59 pm to bhtigerfan
This sounds like a house of horrors. You could make some electrician very happy if you wanted to open your wallet.
Have you visually inspected the wires in your main load center? You say the circuit breaker for the AC circuit is tripping, as well as miscellaneous lighting circuits?
Have you visually inspected the wires in your main load center? You say the circuit breaker for the AC circuit is tripping, as well as miscellaneous lighting circuits?
Posted on 12/2/15 at 2:00 pm to bhtigerfan
I am in South Florida and just replaced a Federal Pacific with a Siemans. Old and new we're 200 amp. Ran me about $900.
This also. Old box had double taps.
quote:
Whatever you do, don't let him doubletap the neutrals lol
This also. Old box had double taps.
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 12/2/15 at 2:01 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
Is that possible? I was told 3 phase box and 3 phase unit, or single and single.
Of course it is possible. You said earlier you wanted to keep your three phase air conditioner, as to avoid the cost of upgrading to a newer unit
What all electrical equipment is 3 phase. The fan motor and the compresssor?
Does the house have an electric furnace. I'd imagine that is probably 240 1/ph
Posted on 12/2/15 at 2:03 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
Is that possible? I was told 3 phase box and 3 phase unit, or single and single.
Absolutely possible.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 3:03 pm to LuckySo-n-So
what's the rationale for disallowing double tapped neutrals?
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 12/2/15 at 5:35 pm to bhtigerfan
Wow there's a lot of ignorant posts in this thread I'm an electrical contractor and I mostly do service work. I come across this exact scenario from time to time in older homes. The thinking was that a 3-phase ac unit was more efficient than single-phase, so they would run a delta-connected 3-phase service so the single-phase for the rest of the house would be 240 instead of 208. Like a few others have mentioned, your ac unit is probably on it's last leg and that certainly should factor into your decision.
Why you should get rid of your FPE panel You should be thankful that your FPE breakers were tripping at all. They sometimes just let the amps flow...
My professional opinion and recommendation:
Contact your service provider and see if they are willing to redo the lateral to your house to a single-phase service. If they are, then have your service upgraded to a 200A single-phase and replace your ac unit.
Also, Siemens is a good brand that's still affordable. It's a solid mid-level purchase. These guys saying ge must like driving Kia's. You won't have to install arc-faults due to the panel not moving more than 6 feet, and they probably wouldn't work very well without rewiring a bunch of junction boxes anyway. So that will save you some money.
I'm an electrical contractor and I mostly do service work. I come across this exact scenario from time to time in older homes. The thinking was that a 3-phase ac unit was more efficient than single-phase, so they would run a delta-connected 3-phase service so the single-phase for the rest of the house would be 240 instead of 208. Like a few others have mentioned, your ac unit is probably on it's last leg and that certainly should factor into your decision. Why you should get rid of your FPE panel You should be thankful that your FPE breakers were tripping at all. They sometimes just let the amps flow...
My professional opinion and recommendation:
Contact your service provider and see if they are willing to redo the lateral to your house to a single-phase service. If they are, then have your service upgraded to a 200A single-phase and replace your ac unit.
Also, Siemens is a good brand that's still affordable. It's a solid mid-level purchase. These guys saying ge must like driving Kia's. You won't have to install arc-faults due to the panel not moving more than 6 feet, and they probably wouldn't work very well without rewiring a bunch of junction boxes anyway. So that will save you some money.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 5:41 pm to Tiger-Striped-Bass
quote:
what's the rationale for disallowing double tapped neutrals
A buss terminal must be rated for multiple wires to double lug. Beyond the technical requirements, if you loosen the terminal to add/remove a neutral and the other wire is under load from a multi wire circuit you're gonna have a really bad day. Try explaining to a homeowner why their tv or computer or microwave just fried from getting back fed 240. I've had to go behind someone to figure that out and what happened to a home office full of electronics with the other wire feeding a living room with an entertainment system.
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 5:44 pm
Posted on 12/2/15 at 5:58 pm to bhtigerfan
Maybe there is a third option, split off the meter base to a 3phase service equipment panel for the AC unit, and a separate single phase service equipment panel for the house electrical. A single family residence can have up to six disconnect devices off a common meter and they are not required to be in the same housing.
230.71 Maximum Number of Disconnects.
(A) General. The service disconnecting means for each
service permitted by 230.2, or for each set of service entrance
conductors permitted by 230.40, Exception No. 1,
3, 4, or 5, shall consist of not more than six switches or sets
of circuit breakers, or a combination of not more than six
switches and sets of circuit breakers, mounted in a single
enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a
switchboard. There shall be not more than six sets of disconnects
per service grouped in any one location.
230.71 Maximum Number of Disconnects.
(A) General. The service disconnecting means for each
service permitted by 230.2, or for each set of service entrance
conductors permitted by 230.40, Exception No. 1,
3, 4, or 5, shall consist of not more than six switches or sets
of circuit breakers, or a combination of not more than six
switches and sets of circuit breakers, mounted in a single
enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a
switchboard. There shall be not more than six sets of disconnects
per service grouped in any one location.
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 6:08 pm
Posted on 12/2/15 at 6:25 pm to bhtigerfan
This has been a fun thread to read, thx. Can you, when it gets light take a picture of the panel w/o the interior cover if possible?
Posted on 12/2/15 at 6:52 pm to stuckintexas
quote:Union electrician for 31 years here and this is correct. Siemens breakers will fit in a GE, ITE, Bryant, Challenger, Square D Homeline or Cutler Hammer BR series panel and all are middle of the road. Cutler Hammer CH series or Square D QO series is all I would own as both are top notch for a few bucks more. Swap panel and AC and never look back. FYI check with your Power Company, some will finance your new high SEER unit and add it to your monthly bill at a reasonable price.
Wow there's a lot of ignorant posts in this thread I'm an electrical contractor and I mostly do service work. I come across this exact scenario from time to time in older homes. The thinking was that a 3-phase ac unit was more efficient than single-phase, so they would run a delta-connected 3-phase service so the single-phase for the rest of the house would be 240 instead of 208. Like a few others have mentioned, your ac unit is probably on it's last leg and that certainly should factor into your decision.
Why you should get rid of your FPE panel You should be thankful that your FPE breakers were tripping at all. They sometimes just let the amps flow...
My professional opinion and recommendation:
Contact your service provider and see if they are willing to redo the lateral to your house to a single-phase service. If they are, then have your service upgraded to a 200A single-phase and replace your ac unit.
Also, Siemens is a good brand that's still affordable. It's a solid mid-level purchase. These guys saying ge must like driving Kia's. You won't have to install arc-faults due to the panel not moving more than 6 feet, and they probably wouldn't work very well without rewiring a bunch of junction boxes anyway. So that will save you some money.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 7:12 pm to bhtigerfan
Need to report him to Angie's list
Posted on 12/2/15 at 7:35 pm to LAHooligan
quote:
Cutler Hammer CH series or Square D QO series is all I would own as both are top notch for a few bucks more.
For panel boards I would agree, but SqD 225A or under is just like their Homeline as far as the buss bar. So buying QO to go in those panels is like putting racing slicks on a mini bike, it's over kill.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 7:58 pm to Napoleon
I'm
You are out of your element here. For starters, federal pacific is a "bad brand" because they are a fire hazard, which is why they went out of business 3 decades ago.
2nd, of all of the main brand breaker boxes, ge is easily the most inferior
3rd, not all residential boxes are single phase (there is no such thing as 2 phase). Whether or not you have single phase of 3 phase is determined by what the utility has coming in at that place, not whether or not it is a residence or business.
To the op. Siemens is a good brand. If you have a 3 phase service, and that is the only 3 phase breaker other than your main, it should only be an extra $200 or so compared to a single phase service change. Getting a new 3 pole fpe breaker will cost a ton, they are not cheap
quote:
He is saying you need a "better brand" of breaker. (I use GE) Okay all residential boxes are two phase. You have a neutral to ground leg, and then two hot legs of 110-120 each. This is limited by whatever you panel breaker is rated at, so you have a single 100amp as the main I am assuming. Is it the main that is tripping or the 50 amp breaker for the AC unit
You are out of your element here. For starters, federal pacific is a "bad brand" because they are a fire hazard, which is why they went out of business 3 decades ago.
2nd, of all of the main brand breaker boxes, ge is easily the most inferior
3rd, not all residential boxes are single phase (there is no such thing as 2 phase). Whether or not you have single phase of 3 phase is determined by what the utility has coming in at that place, not whether or not it is a residence or business.
To the op. Siemens is a good brand. If you have a 3 phase service, and that is the only 3 phase breaker other than your main, it should only be an extra $200 or so compared to a single phase service change. Getting a new 3 pole fpe breaker will cost a ton, they are not cheap
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:04 pm to stuckintexas
quote:let me guess, you are a QO guy?
Siemens is a good brand that's still affordable. It's a solid mid-level purchase
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:07 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
Outdoor piece of shite Federal Pacific, 100 amp, with a 3 phase AC unit tied into it.
Someone must live in Broadmoor.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:10 pm to Kajungee
quote:
Kajungee
Where have you been???????
Hope all is well with you.
Clear this shite up for these baws.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 8:18 pm to Kajungee
I have not read all the responses.
But I have rebuilt 4 of these services in Broadmoor.
Changing the A/C is an option you might explore.
or
I would consider the 3 phase panel. Defiantly need to get rid of that FPE crap.
But the most economical way may be.
Riser to a trough, feeding one 30A, 3 phase disconnect for the A/C and a 100 or 200A (depending on Gas heat or not) to feed the new Main Lug loadcenter in the house.
Probably going to run $1,600-$,2,000 that is if you do not have to many other code issues around the house to fix.
But I have rebuilt 4 of these services in Broadmoor.
Changing the A/C is an option you might explore.
or
I would consider the 3 phase panel. Defiantly need to get rid of that FPE crap.
But the most economical way may be.
Riser to a trough, feeding one 30A, 3 phase disconnect for the A/C and a 100 or 200A (depending on Gas heat or not) to feed the new Main Lug loadcenter in the house.
Probably going to run $1,600-$,2,000 that is if you do not have to many other code issues around the house to fix.
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