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Started By
Message
re: NDE Near Death Experience
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:30 pm to WaWaWeeWa
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:30 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Then answer my questions above about consciousness
Your questions about consciousness were not directed to me so I did not retain them. However, I can give you my assessment of consciousness based upon my reductionist scientific view.
Consciousness is a process of the brain. It is an awareness of an organism’s environment.
It ranks from maximum to minimum in the living environment, the 5 kingdoms of life:
1. animals (all multicellular animals having eukaryotic cells)
2. plants (all green plants)
3. fungi (moulds, mushrooms, yeast)
4. protists (Amoeba, Chlorella and Plasmodium)
5. prokaryotes (bacteria, blue-green algae)
Animals, of course, display consciousness at a level far more complex than the other kingdoms and humans are the zenith of conscious creatures. We have learned to use reason, symbology and technology to shape the environment to our needs and wants whereas all other creatures adapt to theirs.
This evolutionary crown jewel has made humans the apex creature on earth.
quote:
Science doesn’t have all the answers.
Of course not but it is a way to discover answers to our questions. We don’t have to make up answers anymore or accept the divinings of people who say they have links with a higher power who gives them answers which they are supposed to share with others.
quote:
And before you put me in a box I have a degree in medicine so I’m well aware of the workings of the human body.
I’m not like that. I accept people for who they are unless they pose harm to me or others.
1
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:30 pm to WaWaWeeWa
DP
This post was edited on 12/10/22 at 9:31 pm
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:37 pm to LCA131
quote:
The mind is a non-physical portion of our existence.
There is no evidence for such a concept.
quote:
The problem that I have with science and the scientific method is it is seemingly unwilling to admit when it's wrong
When evidence for a theory is proved wrong in science, then that theory is either dumped or modified to fit the new observation. Furthermore, science is open and and malleable. It does not incorporate absolutes in the manner of religion.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:41 pm to UGATiger26
quote:
People knew that dead people decayed long before “modern science” confirmed that for us.
What are you really trying to say?
That this is what happens to people when they die, in response to WWWW’s statement that I don’t know what happens to people when they die.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:44 pm to UGATiger26
quote:
Quite a claim. What is science? Who is science? How does science “give?” Is science alive? Does it have a consciousness? A will?
Your questions are too broad. However, I can say that science is the study and discovery of nature.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:45 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Consciousness is a process of the brain. It is an awareness of an organism’s environment.
Why does this necessitate a subjective experience?
In other words, a computer sensor can detect changes in the environment and respond. Does it have consciousness?
Essentially what you are arguing is that we are a fancy machine. If we have no free will then why is a subjective experience even present? You don’t have an ability to choose from your perspective so why are you even aware? There is no evolutionary advantage.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 9:55 pm to Tigers2010a
quote:
Prove that would you.
The funny thing about the brain is that it’s a lot like the universe.
The more we learn about it, the more we realize how little we understand it.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 10:06 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Why does this necessitate a subjective experience?
Sorry, I can’t relate well to philosophical concepts since I don’t use them. I know subjective means personal so I think you’re asking if consciousness requires a personal experience. If that’s so, then, yes, that’s all that life has experienced to this point, as far as we know.
However, there may be another form of consciousness that we haven’t explored much. Hive organisms may employ consciousness differently to us.
quote:
In other words, a computer sensor can detect changes in the environment and respond. Does it have consciousness?
I think that it’s reasonable to think that artificial consciousness, at least at a primitive level has been achieved.
quote:
Essentially what you are arguing is that we are a fancy machine.
A fancy, intelligent biological machine. Yes.
quote:
If we have no free will then why is a subjective experience even present?
More philosophy.
quote:
There is no evolutionary advantage.
The evolutionary advantage of intelligence is self-evident in the only example we have, life on earth. Humans are the apex biological organism. It can only be superceded by artificial intelligence at some point in the very near future.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 10:14 pm to Kentucker
quote:
More philosophy.
It’s not philosophy
Why does a machine have a subjective experience? I’m asking you to explain the biological process that produces the subjective experience.
A machine should be able to function without being aware of itself. If in fact it is just billiard balls on a pool table.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 10:20 pm to derp
DMT
Posted on 12/10/22 at 10:22 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
A machine should be able to function without being aware of itself.
Consciousness is different to self awareness. While the latter is included in the former, the former is not predicated upon the latter.
Only a very few creatures are self aware. Humans, elephants, dolphins, chimps and gorillas have all exhibited self awareness.
Sorry, I have to turn in. Big day tomorrow. It’s been entertaining to converse with you. Have a great week-end.
Posted on 12/10/22 at 10:29 pm to Kentucker
We will continue this later 
Posted on 12/10/22 at 11:59 pm to derp
Wasn't there once a guy that made it all the way to the morgue, only to walk out?
Posted on 12/12/22 at 3:36 pm to Reservoir dawg
quote:
Wasn't there once a guy that made it all the way to the morgue, only to walk out?
Yes. A Russian Nuclear Physicist with a temporary visa to go to the U.S. in the 70's was run over and then backed over again by two KGB agents at the airport in Moscow. He said a medical team did their best to save him but eventually pronounced him dead. He spent 2 days in a morgue with a faulty cooler. He said that he left his body during this time and his spirit floated around the hospital came upon a distressed child and discovered that the child had a broken pelvis from delivery and was able to comfort the child. He said that he had actually telepathically communicated with this child and found this out. When they rolled this Scientists body from the morgue they discovered he was moving and alive. When he gained full consciousness he told his Drs. about the child they didn't believe him at first but he insisted so they checked out the child only to discover that he was correct. After he recovered he was allowed to come to the US and never went back to the USSR.
Posted on 12/12/22 at 4:47 pm to derp
Posted on 12/12/22 at 6:15 pm to derp
Saved for later. Thanks.
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