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Message
re: Man Shoots AR-15 Against His Nose To Show How Little Kick It Has
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:38 am to slackster
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:38 am to slackster
quote:
I'm tired of people arguing that an AR-15 isn't anymore dangerous than any other weapon.
It depends on how one defines "dangerous." I once had a cop explain how a Beretta .22 was the most dangerous gun in America (this was 30 years ago) - why? Because it was an extremely tiny pistol for the day that one could, with practice, "palm" and do magic tricks with.
Obviously, a custom rifle in .338 Lapua or .50 BMG could be extremely effective in a hunting situation, target shooting, as well as look intimidating and be used to kill a lot of people.
But, what makes the AR potentially lethal in the circumstances you've outlined? The detachable magazine and semiautomatic rate of fire. At the end of the day, most semis have these features. Luby's was done with pistols. Columbine was done, mainly, with 9mm pistols/carbines.
A disarmed population is the bigger risk, IMHO. Everything else is public relations. I appreciate your take on the whole, "don't be surprised" about public reaction, but long guns simply aren't the problem. They are being portrayed as the problem because Americans are stupid. Gruber was right. The choice is to get smart or get played.
1
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:39 am to slackster
quote:
These people don't care about facts, and if you try to win the war of public opinion using facts, you'll lose.
Which is why everyone should alter their behavior to accommodate them? WTF man that can't even make sense in your head.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:39 am to UpToPar
quote:
After all, most high speed car accidents happen in some type of sports car. Why do we need cars that have the capability to exceed the speed limit? They are inherently more dangerous, and they look like they go really fast.
This attitude is why we're losing in the court of public opinion. I don't want a ban on AR-15s, but I recognize that it has some faults that need to be addressed. Many of you won't even have the conversation, and as a result, you're going to end up with legislation jammed down your throat in the next few years.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:41 am to mylsuhat
quote:
simply put, the media is planting the seed in their head that the AR is the only weapon capable of doing what they want to do.
Mass Shooters usually aren't any more knowledgeable in weapons than the mainstream media
LOL You really believe that
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:41 am to slackster
quote:I know what you're saying and I tend to agree with you. I'm just saying that the knee jerk and click bait minded media doesn't care about the truth and facts as much as they care about shock value
The general public sure as shite does. That picture RogerTheShrubber posted is comical because it is accurate. That is how the AR-15 is portrayed. You can argue until you're blue in the face that all of those descriptions are incorrect, or you can acknowledge the fact that the AR-15 is a scary looking gun to the average American, and the more times it is used in mass murders, the more scary it will look. These people don't care about facts, and if you try to win the war of public opinion using facts, you'll lose.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:44 am to LSUTigersVCURams
quote:
Which is why everyone should alter their behavior to accommodate them? WTF man that can't even make sense in your head.
No, no you shouldn't just give in, but you need to address the fact that the tide is turning against you. One person killed 49 people a few weeks ago with your relatively harmless weapon. You don't need to roll over for these people, but you need to be open to the conversation about why the AR-15 is a favorite of mass murderers, and you need to have a better argument than simply saying other guns are just as deadly.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:45 am to slackster
I get what you're saying, but the argument that it looks dangerous is silly.
Why should one side cave to the other side because the other side is illogical?
Why should one side cave to the other side because the other side is illogical?
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:48 am to slackster
quote:
I'm tired of people arguing that an AR-15 isn't anymore dangerous than any other weapon.
The truth hurts?
A 12 gauge full of slugs would be more damaging in a night club.
So would dropping bleach tabs into buckets of ammonia.
I have a bone stock little AR15-22. Tonight it gets a light, an optic, a forward grip, and a muzzle break. Why? Because sometimes armadillos run when I look at my garden at night. And it allows me to stop using my white and neon green 12 gauge
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:48 am to slackster
quote:
The gun is marketed as a bad-arse addition to the collection of any real gun enthusiast
Because it is, but what does that have to do with murder? you aren't making any sense.
quote:
Yet none of them are required on traditional rifles and no one bats an eye at those.
OK????
quote:
our argument is that customizing it to the hilt makes it more comfortable and easier to shoot accurately for long periods of time, you're not going to win any brownie points with the anti-AR-15 crowd
Nor am I trying to. I don't need, want, or require their "brownie points". I couldn't give less of a frick if they approve of my choice in weaponry.
quote:
They hear that and think you're making it more efficient and comfortable for shooting people.
I can hardly control other people's ignorance. I can simply answer questions if asked, but at the end of the day if they are going to stick their fingers in their ears and believe what they want, then there's nothing I can do.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:49 am to OweO
quote:
Wasnt these guns banned until 2005 and once the ban lifted there have been double the number of mass shootings as they have been prior to 2005 within the same time range?
Kind of. Yes there was an assault weapons ban but it didn't actually ban any of the weapons since it was so full of loopholes.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:49 am to UpToPar
quote:
Why should one side cave to the other side because the other side is illogical?
This, in a nutshell
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:50 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
A disarmed population is the bigger risk, IMHO. Everything else is public relations. I appreciate your take on the whole, "don't be surprised" about public reaction, but long guns simply aren't the problem. They are being portrayed as the problem because Americans are stupid. Gruber was right. The choice is to get smart or get played.
Precisely - pro-gun advocates haven't done a job of controlling the conversation about weapons like the AR-15, and it seems like when they do get a platform to speak out, they are out of touch with reality. 27 people were killed by one weapon at an elementary school in Sandy Hook, Connecticut - getting out there and telling people it could have been worse if he used a shotgun or just as bad if he used pistols is not going to swing public sentiment in your direction.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:51 am to slackster
quote:
You don't need to roll over for these people, but you need to be open to the conversation about why the AR-15 is a favorite of mass murderers, and you need to have a better argument than simply saying other guns are just as deadly.
I agree with you here, but this boils down to magazine capacity, not looks. I don't think there is any debate that an AR15 with a 30 round magazine is capable of killing a greater number of people in a smaller amount of time than a semi-auto deer rifle with a 5 round magazine. But people need to realize that the only reason why one is capable of killing more people is magazine capacity. It's not that one is black and the other is wood, it's not that one has a pistol grip, or a collapsible stock or a fore grip or a flashlight or laser.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:52 am to X123F45
quote:
A 12 gauge full of slugs would be more damaging in a night club.
So would dropping bleach tabs into buckets of ammonia.
Yet these aren't used - why?
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:54 am to slackster
quote:
Yet these aren't used - why?
Probably some symbolic warrior attachment to the tactical looking weapon. Seems most of these shooters are fairly young.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:54 am to slackster
quote:
you need to be open to the conversation about why the AR-15 is a favorite of mass murderers
Mass shooters are almost always either radical muslims or liberals. Each knows less about guns than even you.
Because the media insists on demonizing the weapon and not the person, and making each killer famous, they continue to choose it.
You want to know the most dangerous thing here, those talking heads on TV.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:54 am to UpToPar
It takes < 1 second to drop a magazine and put another one in
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:55 am to slackster
quote:
getting out there and telling people it could have been worse if he used a shotgun or just as bad if he used pistols is not going to swing public sentiment in your direction.
So what will? Agreeing to a ban? Magic tricks? I mean, if people will not listen to reason, facts, truth - then what will sway them?
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:57 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
what will sway them?
Mass killings without firearms?
Wait.... That's terrorism.
....shite
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:59 am to slackster
quote:
Yet these aren't used - why?
I already told you. They are tactically inferior.
The AR15, or AKM, or similar type lightweight, semi auto, magazine fed rifle is the most logical and effective choice for someone looking to inflict harm on a large group of people. It's the best thing available.
If we ban it? Then something ELSE will be the best thig available...in the same sense that if we de-regulated machine guns an M-60 would probably be the best thing available.
I'm having a hard time figuring out what exactly the point is you are trying to make, other than we should compromise with people who's entire position is constructed upon feelings and illogical nonsense.
What precisely are you proposing that advocates of the AR15 rifle should be doing?
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