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re: Greatest military commander (any branch of service) in U.S. history?
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:16 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:16 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
I never mentioned Maryland. Only Pennsylvania.
This is from Wikipedia, regarding Lee's second invasion of the North:
"Lee gave strict orders for his army to minimize any negative impacts on the civilian population.[13] Food, horses, and other supplies were generally not seized outright, although quartermasters reimbursing Northern farmers and merchants with Confederate money were not well received. Various towns, most notably York, Pennsylvania, were required to pay indemnities in lieu of supplies, under threat of destruction. During the invasion, the Confederates seized some 40 northern African Americans, a few of whom were escaped fugitive slaves but most were freemen. They were sent south into slavery under guard."
1
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:17 pm to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
Hindsight is 20/20. Lee was an aggressive minded General and to that point his aggression had worked to his advantage. He had several things go wrong and I'll admit he was too adamant in sticking with his plan but again, hindsight is 20/20.
Not saying Lee is infallible but to blame Lee for the CSA's losing the war is nuts
Pickett blamed Lee, and said so. I myself think Lee's judgement was clouded by his lack of sleep related to his heart condition.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:21 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
Pickett blamed Lee, and said so
Well of all of his subordinates I'd bet his and Longstreet's criticisms would be the harshest. Very Fredricksburg-esque on Lee's part except this time it was Lee sending men into a meat grinder. But as you said, there are so many outside variables that played into that battle. Lee obviously made a mistake but find a leader who didn't make a mistake like that. Sadly for Lee and the CSA it was a crushing blow that came at a terrible time for the South. But it definitely wasn't the sole reason the South lost the war.
Anyway, I am about to pass out but it's been fun, gents
This post was edited on 2/16/14 at 11:24 pm
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:22 pm to RollTide1987
McArthur
Patton
Rickover
Patton
Rickover
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:23 pm to MaroonWhite
quote:
This is from Wikipedia, regarding Lee's second invasion of the North:
"Lee gave strict orders for his army to minimize any negative impacts on the civilian population.[13] Food, horses, and other supplies were generally not seized outright, although quartermasters reimbursing Northern farmers and merchants with Confederate money were not well received. Various towns, most notably York, Pennsylvania, were required to pay indemnities in lieu of supplies, under threat of destruction. During the invasion, the Confederates seized some 40 northern African Americans, a few of whom were escaped fugitive slaves but most were freemen. They were sent south into slavery under guard."
quote:
Stuart chose to reach Ewell's flank by taking his three best brigades (those of Brig. Gen. Wade Hampton, Brig. Gen. Fitzhugh Lee, and Col. John R. Chambliss, the latter replacing the wounded Brig. Gen. W.H.F. "Rooney" Lee) between the Union army and Washington, moving north through Rockville to Westminster and on into Pennsylvania, hoping to capture supplies along the way and cause havoc near the enemy capital.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:23 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
Pickett blamed Lee, and said so. I myself think Lee's judgement was clouded by his lack of sleep related to his heart condition.
Lee relied too much on the training he received at West Point and forgot the lessons offered to him by Washington in the Revolutionary War - a Cause he modeled his own off of. You pick and choose your battles, and do your damnedest not to be the aggressor. Lee did not do this and lost a higher ratio of troops than his Union opposition in all but one or two of the battles he fought in the Civil War.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:24 pm to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
But it definitely wasn't the sole reason the South lost the war.
Realistically, it was the only chance for the south to win the war.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:27 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Lee relied too much on the training he received at West Point and forgot the lessons offered to him by Washington in the Revolutionary War - a Cause he modeled his own off of. You pick and choose your battles, and do your damnedest not to be the aggressor. Lee did not do this and lost a higher ratio of troops than his Union opposition in all but one or two of the battles he fought in the Civil War.
Longstreet's confusion at Lee's orders was because the two had agreed on a plan of luring the Union Army northwards and then getting between it and Washington before they crossed the Potomac.
I stand by my statement that Lee wasn't in full control of his faculties for at least a portion of that battle.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:27 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
Realistically, it was the only chance for the south to win the war.
The war was still very much so in question as late as the summer of 1864. Maybe not militarily but there was absolutely a possibility of the Southern realization of independence. Had the South held on long enough for the presidential election they very much so could have gotten their goal. The complete collapse of the Western Theater is what finally ended any chance IMO
This post was edited on 2/16/14 at 11:28 pm
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:30 pm to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
The complete collapse of the Western Theater is what finally ended any chance IMO
Atlanta was best Christmas present Lincoln ever got. Nothing else would have gotten him re-elected IMHO.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:30 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
I stand by my statement that Lee wasn't in full control of his faculties for at least a portion of that battle.
This maybe true, but Gettysburg was hardly the first time Lee had ever given confusing, ambiguous and conflicting orders. In fact...it happened quite often. Things just managed to go his way because, more often than not, his opposition was borderline incompetent.
The Seven Days' Campaign is a great example of this.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:33 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
I think you meant savannah but IMO you're absolutely right. shite, that's the Crux of my research paper I did: how the capture of Atlanta and Sherman's subsequent march to the sea galvanized a weary northern public, relieved a much maligned president, and delivered the kill shot to southern hope. Of course I fancied the wording up better than that.
This post was edited on 2/16/14 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:34 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The Seven Days' Campaign is a great example of this.
Not on the scale of Gettysburg. Lee ordered an attack against an entrenched position, uphill, in broad daylight. With enfilade fire from both flanks.
And thought it a good idea.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:36 pm to RollTide1987
George Washington.. What he did with what he had was phenonmenal. Perfect blend of retreating strategic attacking and waiting for an opportunity.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:36 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
Not on the scale of Gettysburg. Lee ordered an attack against an entrenched position, uphill, in broad daylight. With enfilade fire from both flanks.
And thought it a good idea.
And that's just Malvern Hill...one day out of seven. Lee attacked head long for seven straight days, suffered 20,000 casualties, and inflicted only half as many on an army twice his strength. The only reason why it worked out for him is because his opponent (McClellan) was a dumb arse. That's not good strategy or tactics IMO.
This post was edited on 2/16/14 at 11:37 pm
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:37 pm to RollTide1987
General Macarthur in the Pacific and his corncob pipe. That was virgin territory
This post was edited on 2/16/14 at 11:39 pm
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:38 pm to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
I think you meant savannah
As far as the Christmas part, you're right about Savannah. But it was Atlanta's capture that secured Lincoln's re-election.
quote:
In 1864, Sherman succeeded Grant as the Union commander in the western theater of the war. He proceeded to lead his troops to the capture of the city of Atlanta, a military success that contributed to the re-election of President Abraham Lincoln.
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:39 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
I was referring to the Christmas gift. Were on the same page as far as Atlanta is concerned
Eta: and I'm about to fall asleep mid sentence. It's been fun, dudes, lets do this again some time
Eta: and I'm about to fall asleep mid sentence. It's been fun, dudes, lets do this again some time
This post was edited on 2/16/14 at 11:41 pm
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:41 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
And that's just Malvern Hill...one day out of seven. Lee attacked head long for seven straight days, suffered 20,000 casualties, and inflicted only half as many on an army twice his strength. The only reason why it worked out for him is because his opponent (McClellan) was a dumb arse. That's not good strategy or tactics IMO.
See, now I get back to my original point. Lee and Longstreet had agreed on a strategy before the invasion began and Lee changed it for what Longstreet considered to be dubious reasons. And I think Lee's poor health and physical condition at the time of the battle clouded his reason.
This post was edited on 2/16/14 at 11:44 pm
Posted on 2/16/14 at 11:42 pm to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
I was referring to the Christmas gift
And I understood that. I was mixing my metaphors, so to speak. Getting to be bedtime here as well.
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