re: Delphi, IN Murders Trial Thread

He seemed to be fully aware of the situation before they took him into custody. He put up a good battle versus the cops and sounded like he was telling the truth. They sent him to prison, and he lost his grip on reality. He couldn’t keep it together. Part of me thinks he didn’t do it and is trying to get paid. Part of me thinks he did it. There’s little evidence though

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Completely disagree with POTUS. I think they are making a better case that he is a bat-shite crazy homicidal psycho completely capable of committing this crime, and it will be a unanimous “guilty” verdict and it won’t take them very long to come back with it. If this is their defense, I think they fricked up by not just pleading insanity. None of this is leading me to believe it was a different person that committed the murders. And with the defense strategy they’ve gone with, that’s all the jury has to consider. Is there reasonable doubt he did it? Imo, no. All the rest is just theatrics.

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There is zero evidence linking Allen to the crimes.
Bridge Guy descriptions don't match him.
Nothing at all puts him at the crime scene.
No DNA anywhere - his is not at the scene or with the girls. None of the girls' DNA is on any of his belongings.
No fiber evidence at the scene or with Allen's things to link him to the girls.
It's not plausible that zero DNA or fiber or other 'transfer' evidence would be present in a crime that was ostensibly much less than deliberate, planned, lengthy, and occurring at multiple locations.
Firearm evidence does not exclude multiple firearms belonging to multiple people.
Every hallmark of a false confession is there and his mental health history makes him especially vulnerable.
They tortured him in prison and the literature on false confessions and impacts of things like solitary confinement and sensory deprivation is well established and not debatable.
LE has been clowned repeatedly.
There is nothing suggesting Allen is a homicidal lunatic - he has nothing in his past suggesting violence. Even his confession makes no sense. "I did something with the gun and I guess that's where the bullet came out" - that's not convincing for someone that knows how guns work and he's saying the bullet came out in a location where it was not found.

There's a 1% chance of a guilty verdict here, and I think that is being generous. You couldn't have a more discredited prosecution if you tried.

The Defense team is clearly superior but their job has been made easier because the facts are on their side, along with a circus of error and misconduct by the state. It's noteworthy that the Defense has not had to resort to legal technicalities to disqualify this and disqualify that, and that Allen is in trial and did not take a plea deal. If you were close about him being a homicidal lunatic, it seems they would have taken a plea and argued insanity in the plea / sentencing. They haven't even hinted at that - they are arguing innocence.

I think many of you are simply too trusting of the system. How this trial could avoid shaking your confidence in the system is befuddling. They have fricked this up from the start, and 7 years later, they continue doing the same. In 1990 with the Gainesville student murders they quickly arrested a guy and it was pretty apparent he was not the guy and he was let go pretty quickly. Thankfully LE in this area had the IQ and professionalism to figure that out. These clowns in Delphi are the polar opposite of competence and professionalism. They look like idiots with malice.

My hunch is that once the Defense is done with Weber, we have a legit shot at a unanimous NOT GUILTY verdict, but probably still more likely a hung jury - and if the state says they are going to trial again, I predict a lot of outcry from the community and eventually they drop the charges, especially when the civil suit gets filed for Allen's treatment. The state will attempt to use that to bargain - settle the civil suit with an NDA and we drop the charges. Allen and some lawyers are about to get paid, IMO. Would not surprise me to see Allen and his lawyers say 'pound sand on the NDA' we are writing books, filing briefs, and getting paid. The more that comes out, the worse it looks for the state. If this does result in NOT GUILTY, that civil suit is going to be lit.

The only way you can arrive at a guilty verdict is if you view the state's case as being flawless, and even then it's a stretch. Nothing connects him to the murder scene or the crime itself. Nothing is assured but I would be shocked if this is a guilty verdict.

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-Baldwin then admitted a picture of Weber's garage with branches in it
-I assume it's to make the tie to the branches at the scene? Didn't really get in to it much.

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I mentioned several pages ago...some people are going to start thinking Weber is the killer.

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ut allowing that picture from Feb 19th seems questionable.

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Well, it was a LE photo made through discovery...and there must have been something with the branches that made it relevant to the crime scene photos.

My guess is that the sticks were in an asterisk pattern because that is what was reported in the crime scene photos. It also caught LE's attention, hence the pic.

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I mentioned several pages ago...some people are going to start thinking Weber is the killer.

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The issue with this is that you can’t incriminate Weber without also incriminating Allen. Allen either acted alone or with help. Now you could try to say Allen only physically participated in kidnapping and Weber also physically participated in kidnapping and murder but murder that occurs during a kidnapping or attempting kidnapping is charged against all participants.

This case centers around Allen’s involvement. If the evidence presents itself (And it may already have even before the trial) then Weber’s day may come eventually.

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The issue with this is that you can’t incriminate Weber without also incriminating Allen

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Definitely not the case. They are not bonded together in any way. Allen could be there walking, not be involved in the murders and not be tied to Weber.

The judge made a major mistake today. There was some speculation about what was required to charge someone with this murder. Defense asked about some people and asked "would they have been charged?" and the judge interrupted and said, "there is no DNA to connect these people so of course they wouldn't be charged" - there's no DNA for Allen.

Every day, the state looks worse and worse.

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For Allen there is video evidence from the bridge with the victims

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This means nothing on a day like that with plenty of people out and about. Also, the descriptions of bridge guy don't match Allen. So, there had to be other people there, on the bridge.

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a shell casing from his gun found between the two dead victims.

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There are multiple guns from multiple people that were never excluded and Allen's was never a definite match.

There is zero evidence that Allen killed anyone. Like I keep saying - maybe he's guilty but they've done a pretty bad job presenting any evidence of that.

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This means nothing on a day like that with plenty of people out and about. Also, the descriptions of bridge guy don't match Allen. So, there had to be other people there, on the bridge.

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Plenty? Most described seeing a guy that looked like bridge guy or were close enough that’s it’s obvious they were talking about bridge guy.

Of the ones that were completely off, some were describing the old guy with a camera who worked for the park. He showed up after things went down and as he was leaving was asked by searches if he saw the girls. He didn’t even know what they were talking about. He was checked out by the FBI in the following days.

Why are you relying on those anyway? You must not believe bridge guy is involved. You’d very much be in the minority there.

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Also, the descriptions of bridge guy don't match Allen.

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Descriptions? You have video evidence to look at. You have Allen himself describing himself. Sure you may have short people saying he was tall or young people saying he was old or skinny people saying he was fat. He definitely looked chunky with all that clothing. None of that means they are describing a different person.

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There are multiple guns from multiple people that were never excluded and Allen's was never a definite match.

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Arizona State did a study last year to test the reliability of cartridge case testing.

ASU Study

More on that study

The results of the study were based on 1,811 decisions made by 228 trained firearms examiners from across the country. The experts analyzed cartridge cases left by 7,244 bullets fired from 28 different guns (of 2 different types) The examiners used microscopes to compare the tool markings on cartridge cases.

It showed that when not accounting for inconclusive cases, the examiners accurately said that the cartridge cases matched or didn't match more than 99% of the time.

1 in 5 were deemed inconclusive. And inconclusive results were much much more likely to be unmatched than matched.

So 1,811 decisions. 1429 were conclusive (matched or not matched). 1,423 of those were correct. 6 incorrect.

382 were inconclusive. Of those 59 were matches and 323 were not matches.

Ideally matched or inconclusive you still want it paired with other evidence but especially with inconclusive. And it better be really strong evidence to overcome inconclusive.

Any conclusive result is hard to overcome. And a match combined with video evidence that resembles the owner of that match should be close to a slam dunk.

And a match included in the exact same murder case with other results that are either inconclusive or didn’t match is also a slam dunk. That shell casing could only come from one gun.

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Most described seeing a guy that looked like bridge guy or were close enough that’s it’s obvious they were talking about bridge guy.

Of the ones that were completely off, some were describing the old guy with a camera who worked for the park. He showed up after things went down and as he was leaving was asked by searches if he saw the girls. He didn’t even know what they were talking about. He was checked out by the FBI in the following days.

Why are you relying on those anyway? You must not believe bridge guy is involved. You’d very much be in the minority there.

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Being in the minority is fine.

A LE guy on the stand admitted the descriptions of bridge guy didn't match Allen. The most logical interpretation is that there were multiple people out there, hence the different descriptions. I'm not relying on this - it's one of the main pillars in the prosecution's case, so it has to be analyzed. That's why I mention it and bring it up.

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Descriptions? You have video evidence to look at. You have Allen himself describing himself. Sure you may have short people saying he was tall or young people saying he was old or skinny people saying he was fat. He definitely looked chunky with all that clothing. None of that means they are describing a different person.

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They are definitely describing different people. Again, this is only an issue because the prosecution made it an issue.

You're trying to force this. Look at how you manufacture agreement between descriptions - either the facts are there or they aren't. The case being presented here couldn't even satisfy the preponderance burden.