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re: Are their genetic differences between races? Or is it environment?
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:16 am to Moustache
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:16 am to Moustache
Probably some variances in inclination, but largely situational factors have shaped modern man.
Obviously, there is something to the fact that most great long distance runners are of East African descent, most great sprinters are of West African extraction, and look at how well Asian students do, despite recent arrival status and language barriers?
On the other hand, environment does play a big role. White suburban kids who start playing tee-ball at 4 or 5 make up the larger population from which MLB are drawn - that's not genetic, that's environment. The better physical specimens are screened in, genetically, from this base population (and of course, Central/South America, Japan and Korea all have huge population of baseball players). Flip that - what did inner city kids have for decades? Shoes, bball and and a basket. They didn't have access to swimming pools, baseball parks or football equipment. Thus the overwhelming demographic advantage that remains in basketball today. It doesn't hurt that most African Americans are of West African descent and have a slight genetic advantage in running and jumping, generally.
To ignore these is to be naive. On the mental side, it gets dicey - Jews - not strictly a race, but an insular population, to a certain degree, for example, are overrepresented among Nobel laureates. Perhaps it is related to their doing a little better, financially, as a group in pre-WWII Europe, but it continues in the post-war populations of Israel and the U.S.
So, without getting into various racial supremacy nonsense or otherwise judging people based on immutable circumstances beyond the individual's control - it is very likely a combination of factors - the DNA forms the "infrastructure" (the building and physical plant, itself, if you will) and experience and environment fill that building (the people, furnishings and content of that building, if you will).
Obviously, there is something to the fact that most great long distance runners are of East African descent, most great sprinters are of West African extraction, and look at how well Asian students do, despite recent arrival status and language barriers?
On the other hand, environment does play a big role. White suburban kids who start playing tee-ball at 4 or 5 make up the larger population from which MLB are drawn - that's not genetic, that's environment. The better physical specimens are screened in, genetically, from this base population (and of course, Central/South America, Japan and Korea all have huge population of baseball players). Flip that - what did inner city kids have for decades? Shoes, bball and and a basket. They didn't have access to swimming pools, baseball parks or football equipment. Thus the overwhelming demographic advantage that remains in basketball today. It doesn't hurt that most African Americans are of West African descent and have a slight genetic advantage in running and jumping, generally.
To ignore these is to be naive. On the mental side, it gets dicey - Jews - not strictly a race, but an insular population, to a certain degree, for example, are overrepresented among Nobel laureates. Perhaps it is related to their doing a little better, financially, as a group in pre-WWII Europe, but it continues in the post-war populations of Israel and the U.S.
So, without getting into various racial supremacy nonsense or otherwise judging people based on immutable circumstances beyond the individual's control - it is very likely a combination of factors - the DNA forms the "infrastructure" (the building and physical plant, itself, if you will) and experience and environment fill that building (the people, furnishings and content of that building, if you will).
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:17 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:And to think I first spelled it with a K. but luckily reviewed my post before which is abnormal
clan
Poor word choice in this thread
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:17 am to LordSaintly
quote:
You could have legitimately smart people of a certain race who are assumed to be dumb because of their race. Those people have to work harder to prove they aren't idiots, and then it still sometimes doesn't work.
That can go for any stereotype or trait.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:18 am to TheCaterpillar
I don't think white people are more intelligent. I think that is almost entirely environment.
I do think certain races/ancestries of people are built physically different due to genetic evolution to survive/thrive that cater to certain professions.
Kenyans, Samoans, and Swedish people aren't all built the same physically, but I believe put in the same environment from birth, have same chance to have equal intelligence.
I do think certain races/ancestries of people are built physically different due to genetic evolution to survive/thrive that cater to certain professions.
Kenyans, Samoans, and Swedish people aren't all built the same physically, but I believe put in the same environment from birth, have same chance to have equal intelligence.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:19 am to Moustache
I don't know anything about genetics, but culturally there's a night and day difference.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:20 am to Moustache
Absolutely. But it doesn't detract from my point. I have a PhD in an engineering field and I still get the "you speak so well" treatment. 
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:20 am to TIGRLEE
quote:
I don't know anything about genetics, but culturally there's a night and day difference.
quote:
TIGRLEE
ABANDON THREAD!
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:20 am to Moustache
There are differences between any group of people. I think most of the differences have an evolutionary like basis. I would normally say that is more environmental, but after generations of adapting it may become more biologically based. I could be wrong though.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:21 am to TIGRLEE
TigerLee, you need to tread lightly in this thread.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:21 am to LordSaintly
quote:
you speak so well
What were they expecting?
"We's gonna be mathin' and sciencin' today!"
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:21 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:
I don't think white people are more intelligent. I think that is almost entirely environment.
If you're talking about Americans as a group, I agree.
But when you look at the world, (Western Europe, Nordic countries, US, Canada) why do these countries have the highest standard of living while an entire continent in Africa or large population of people in India have such a low standard of living? THat can't all be "luck" and environment, right?
quote:
but I believe put in the same environment from birth, have same chance to have equal intelligence.
So you believe everything except intelligence is genetically predisposed at an aggregate level? That makes absolutely no sense.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:22 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
There are differences between any group of people. I think most of the differences have an evolutionary like basis. I would normally say that is more environmental, but after generations of adapting it may become more biologically based. I could be wrong though.
quote:
buckeye_vol
Like all those Ohio women being born pasty to blend in with the snow and fat to insulate their body heat.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:22 am to Ace Midnight
At some point, do environment and genetics collide.
Example: Non-swimmers, over the millenniums, you learn that you don't go in the river because of crocodiles. Is that a genetic and/or environment issue?
Example: Non-swimmers, over the millenniums, you learn that you don't go in the river because of crocodiles. Is that a genetic and/or environment issue?
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 11:26 am
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:22 am to LordSaintly
quote:
Absolutely. But it doesn't detract from my point. I have a PhD in an engineering field and I still get the "you speak so well" treatment.
I see your point.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:22 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:I can get down with all this. If there is an inherit difference it's very small and would be overcome completely by the environment of the upbringing. Like someone else mentioned, I think drive and work ethic plays a HUGE role and that is all in instilled in the environment.
I don't think white people are more intelligent. I think that is almost entirely environment.
I do think certain races/ancestries of people are built physically different due to genetic evolution to survive/thrive that cater to certain professions.
Kenyans, Samoans, and Swedish people aren't all built the same physically, but I believe put in the same environment from birth, have same chance to have equal intelligence.
When it comes to intelligence and/or ignorance, 99 out of 100 times it can be traced back to the upbringing and parenting.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:23 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
you speak so well
not to mention he's from Tioga. which pretty much blows up a stero-type in itself.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:23 am to TIGRLEE
quote:subtle
but culturally there's a night and day difference.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:23 am to REB BEER
I believe genetic disposition plays a larger role in athletics...especially in certain sports.
However, I wonder if a black child would be adopted into a white family with a white child of their own of the same age, raised identically (same education, disciplining, nurturing, etc. etc.)if the resulting outcome would be the same. Very possibly so....then the question arises, who gets the most help after the schooling whether it be "white privilege" or "affirmative action" to determine which one is the most successful in life since all things were equal in their early years. Damn, now my head hurts...
However, I wonder if a black child would be adopted into a white family with a white child of their own of the same age, raised identically (same education, disciplining, nurturing, etc. etc.)if the resulting outcome would be the same. Very possibly so....then the question arises, who gets the most help after the schooling whether it be "white privilege" or "affirmative action" to determine which one is the most successful in life since all things were equal in their early years. Damn, now my head hurts...
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:24 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
We's gonna be mathin' and sciencin' today!"
"Imma drop me a bomb today!"
To be fair, these are usually people who don't know me personally. They're friendly, but damn.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:24 am to Moustache
quote:
So you believe everything except intelligence is genetically predisposed at an aggregate level? That makes absolutely no sense.
I think the brain has been far less affected by evolution than the body.
Not that it hasn't been effected AT ALL, but not nearly to the extent a Kenyan man is a perfect long distance runner and Samoans are perfect warriors.
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