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re: Alcoholism: Why it sucks.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:18 pm to liz18lsu
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:18 pm to liz18lsu
God is not just a name. 
Again, this is a problem I have with AA. The person's surrender to the Higher Power is either hollow or not fully understood by them. The truth is a person can defeat alcoholism without surrendering anything to a Higher Power.
Again, this is a problem I have with AA. The person's surrender to the Higher Power is either hollow or not fully understood by them. The truth is a person can defeat alcoholism without surrendering anything to a Higher Power.
2
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:19 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Even the "higher power" thing is irrelevant.
AA is about being around people who are dealing with the same problem and getting a chance to talk about the underlying issues that led to the alcoholism to begin with.
A lot of people drink (or started drinking) because they like the social aspect the bar room provides. You're just substituting the meeting room for the bar room.
AA is about being around people who are dealing with the same problem and getting a chance to talk about the underlying issues that led to the alcoholism to begin with.
A lot of people drink (or started drinking) because they like the social aspect the bar room provides. You're just substituting the meeting room for the bar room.
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:19 pm to Corkfather
Cork - You are 1,000,000% right
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:20 pm to liz18lsu
Exactly. It's called a support group. The 12 steps aren't necessary.Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:22 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
Exactly. It's called a support group. The 12 steps aren't necessary
No, they are.
The 8th-9th Step, making amends, is crucial. As is the 12th Step, helping others get sober.
With out those two things, most people won't stay sober.
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:23 pm to Corkfather
So, why not call it the 2 step program?
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:23 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
Exactly. It's called a support group. The 12 steps aren't necessary.
Maybe you went to different meetings. I found my local one to be this type of meeting, just people talking, nothing forced on you, no 12 steps being mandated, just encouraged. It was exactly how I thought it should be. Go at the pace you wanna go.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:24 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
So, why not call it the 2 step program?
You can "call it" whatever the frick you like. The fact of the matter is that it works, for a lot of people. If it doesn't work for you, find something else. If you can't... go back and work the program.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:24 pm to dnm3305
quote:
Getting to a point to where you dont comsume alcohol at all when at one point in your life you didnt want to function without it shows strength and determination
I don't think you realize how much strength and determination it does take. Your mind and body are ill due to longterm use and abuse.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:25 pm to Corkfather
You also can't forget the 13th step. If you don't know what that is, you haven't been in the program very long.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:29 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
Again, this is a problem I have with AA. The person's surrender to the Higher Power is either hollow or not fully understood by them. The truth is a person can defeat alcoholism without surrendering anything to a Higher Power.
I've seen guys use their future as their higher power.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:30 pm to SabiDojo
I'll agree to disagree. 30 yrs sobriety has taught me otherwise
All AA requires is a desire to stop drinking
All AA requires is a desire to stop drinking
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:32 pm to dnm3305
quote:
Yes, that's exactly what Im saying. Getting to a point to where you dont comsume alcohol at all when at one point in your life you didnt want to function without it shows strength and determination. Knowing that if you take a sip, you will drink a case shows awareness. Not being able to pour half of beer no.3 out and say Im done drinking for the night is weakness. And for the record, I am an extremely un-religious person so dont think that's where my thoughts are coming from.
I can respect this. Believe me, I am thankful I didn't have a physical dependency. I am very jealous of people's ability to show restraint. I am wired differently, restraint is difficult. Things are all or nothing, on or off. Thanks for having an intelligent discussion about something I struggle with. I was trying to explain it to my roommate (he has no addictive tendencies) and it can be frustrating because we do sound like we are making up excuses for bad behavior. We do wish we could be "normal" and socially drink with grace. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be within my power.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:33 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
An alcoholic or addict is mentally ill. The journey to get there is a choice.
Your mind is "rewired" as an addict or alcoholic. Brain scans clearly show what levels of the brain are permanently damaged by alcohol or drug use.
Years of recovery can help, but its' not overnight.
The most commonly affected area is the frontal lobe which affects judgement. In the casual drinker, this affect is temporary. In the addict or alcoholic, its long term.
I think this is the bridge that people are missing between the mental weakness vs. disease debate. The journey there is 100% your own choice and "mental weakness" if you must label it as such, but once you're there it's something more, whether you want to call it disease or just illness or whatever.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:37 pm to Silky Johnston
quote:
I think this is the bridge that people are missing between the mental weakness vs. disease debate
Right. There is no "disease" that makes me drink. However, when I drink, it affects me differently than it does a lot of people (probably genetic) and when I am addicted, I am very ill.
Any physically addicted person is ill. I've never bought into the concept though that I'm cursed with some disease and am beyond help.
I don't really consider myself an alcoholic. I'm recovered. I'm a former alcoholic.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:38 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I've seen guys use their future as a Higher Power.
That's not what a Higher Power is. That's why I said those people don't really understand what it is they are doing.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:39 pm to Corkfather
Amen brother.
Lot of smart people here talkin about sobriety that really know nothin about it
Lot of smart people here talkin about sobriety that really know nothin about it
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:40 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
That's not what a Higher Power is. That's why I said those people don't really understand what it is they are doing.
You've got some huge preconceived notions you can't get past. Your idea of a higher power isn't an exclusive idea to people that participate in 12 step recovery.
I'll bet those people who have different ideas of a "higher power" will disagree with you.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:41 pm to liz18lsu
quote:
Thanks for having an intelligent discussion about something I struggle with
Youre welcome. Sorry for being harsh and coming off as an a-hole (I know I can be one). I need to work on my delivery, as my fiancee' says.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:45 pm to dnm3305
quote:
Youre welcome. Sorry for being harsh and coming off as an a-hole (I know I can be one). I need to work on my delivery, as my fiancee' says.
It's the OT. We can't have a bunch of Betas running amok!
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