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Started By
Message
re: Alcoholism: Why it sucks.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:01 pm to dnm3305
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:01 pm to dnm3305
quote:
chose to not make an excuse and plowed right through it.
As did I. And when I did binge, I didn't blame anyone. I knew I had a PROBLEM. I CANNOT drink. It is not weakness. I know my limits, but those limits most assuredly exist for me, not limits I CHOOSE. I am not making excuses, and I didn't frick my life up, but I know that people do indeed struggle with shite that appears to beyond the casual "Just say no". I am telling you, if it were that easy, people wouldn't do things that hurt themselves and others. Why would anyone CHOOSE blatantly destructive things that offer nothing positive. Weakness would make you think they would avoid these behaviors. These are not the actions of the weak, but rather the mentally ill.
ETA: LIFE disagrees with you. The thousands that suffer from these illnesses disagree with you. The people that don't seek help from doctors and meds disagree with you.
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 2:03 pm
1
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:03 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It's a very subjective higher power.
Not really, it's a pretty well defined one. It's one that is powerful and intervening enough to help you but only after you fully submit to it.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:03 pm to FT
It works if you work it bro.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:03 pm to SabiDojo
There's atheist in AA as well
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:05 pm to dnm3305
quote:
And who do you think finances that research?
Not to high-jack, but this is one of the worst arguments against believing scientific research. I was completely funded by a private company to test their new technology that they had already tested and found to be accurate. I did my research on their dime and found everything they claimed to be wrong. True scientist who do the research are not influenced by who funds them. The facts are the facts.
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:07 pm to LucasP
quote:
Not really, it's a pretty well defined one. It's one that is powerful and intervening enough to help you but only after you fully submit to it.
Say what?
I've been to AA in La, Alaska, California and the "God" concept is always subjective. It's the only way it works for some people.
There are Athiests in AA who understand the God concept and have successful recoveries.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:07 pm to liz18lsu
quote:
I know that people do indeed struggle with shite that appears to beyond the casual "Just say no". I am telling you, if it were that easy, people wouldn't do things that hurt themselves and others
That is a great point in which I dont have a rebuttal.
quote:
Why would anyone CHOOSE blatantly destructive things that offer nothing positive. Weakness would make you think they would avoid these behaviors
Because alot of people are incredibly selfish.
quote:
These are not the actions of the weak, but rather the mentally ill.
Im sorry. I simply disagree with you. No hard feelings.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:10 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
There are atheists in AA
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:10 pm to dnm3305
One more question, and then I will let it go.
I am weak because I cannot stop drinking once I start, correct?
So, I quit drinking all together. Most now say I am strong, but by your definition, I will always be weak because I don't drink because of my weakness. I have not overcome being weak, I am just avoiding it. Do I understand you correctly?
Like, selling your sports car because you get speeding tickets everyday doesn't make you any less of a dangerous driver, you just took away the method.
So, I will always be weak, until I can learn to drink in moderation. Am I understanding you?
I am weak because I cannot stop drinking once I start, correct?
So, I quit drinking all together. Most now say I am strong, but by your definition, I will always be weak because I don't drink because of my weakness. I have not overcome being weak, I am just avoiding it. Do I understand you correctly?
Like, selling your sports car because you get speeding tickets everyday doesn't make you any less of a dangerous driver, you just took away the method.
So, I will always be weak, until I can learn to drink in moderation. Am I understanding you?
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:11 pm to dnm3305
quote:
These are not the actions of the weak, but rather the mentally ill.
Im sorry. I simply disagree with you. No hard feelings.
An alcoholic or addict is mentally ill. The journey to get there is a choice.
Your mind is "rewired" as an addict or alcoholic. Brain scans clearly show what levels of the brain are permanently damaged by alcohol or drug use.
Years of recovery can help, but its' not overnight.
The most commonly affected area is the frontal lobe which affects judgement. In the casual drinker, this affect is temporary. In the addict or alcoholic, its long term.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:11 pm to pointdog33
quote:
Not to high-jack, but this is one of the worst arguments against believing scientific research. I was completely funded by a private company to test their new technology that they had already tested and found to be accurate. I did my research on their dime and found everything they claimed to be wrong. True scientist who do the research are not influenced by who funds them. The facts are the facts
But that's a blanket statement for something you did in a nice neat box. To your point, youre arguing against my blanket statement. You have integrity and morals, in which the pharmaceutical field has a seriously horrendous reputation for lacking.
quote:
The facts are the facts
Yes they are. They can also be skewed and contorted to fit an agenda.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:11 pm to LucasP
Some people are to smart to get sober
If AA is not working for someone it's there fault not AA
I know people who have been in treatment numerous times and still not sober
If AA is not working for someone it's there fault not AA
I know people who have been in treatment numerous times and still not sober
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:11 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Yes
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:13 pm to ole man
quote:
If AA is not working for someone it's their fault, not AA.
That's not entirely true.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:14 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
There are atheists in AA
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous.
Why is this ridiculous? Higher power can be anything. Do most call it "God", including the program? Sure, because that is what the majority believe, but higher power is up to the individual. I am a non-believer and I didn't find God crammed down my throat. Could I have done without the Lord's Prayer at the end? Sure. But who gives a shite? It was nice to see other people struggle with the same problems. 12 Steps? I don't have any interest in them, but I do appreciate talking with other people who have the same "weakness". I think anything is what you want to get out of it.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:15 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous.
Have you ever been to a meeting?
LINK
quote:
In its “fellowship of concerned, loving people,” he said, he found a secular version of the “Higher Power” to which A.A. literature refers. Humanist A.A. groups also have drafted their own nontheistic versions of the 12 steps. Instead of needing divine assistance for recovery, for example, one step states that “we needed strengths beyond our awareness and resources to restore us to sanity.”
By now, Glenn has sponsored seven humanists into A.A. He regularly attends three secular A.A. meetings each week. Similarly, Vic goes to four nonreligious A.A. meetings weekly.
Too much bias isn't a good thing.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:16 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
There are atheists in AA
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous.
Have you been in the program? You don't have to believe in God to succeed in AA. I'm sure that's what ya'll have been discussing but I'm not reading this whole thread.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:17 pm to liz18lsu
quote:
Why is this ridiculous? Higher power can be anything.
Because he's made up his mind.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:17 pm to liz18lsu
quote:
So, I will always be weak, until I can learn to drink in moderation. Am I understanding you?
Yes, that's exactly what Im saying. Getting to a point to where you dont comsume alcohol at all when at one point in your life you didnt want to function without it shows strength and determination. Knowing that if you take a sip, you will drink a case shows awareness. Not being able to pour half of beer no.3 out and say Im done drinking for the night is weakness. And for the record, I am an extremely un-religious person so dont think that's where my thoughts are coming from.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:18 pm to dnm3305
It wasn't as nice and neat as you are presuming. I went back and forth with them over every aspect of what I was researching and they even sent me to the headquarters so I could be "trained" correctly after not getting the same results as they did. Even after all that, I still showed them it didn't work at their own facility.
There is this presumption that every pharm company or large corporation is out to get you when in reality it is actually a misconception perpetuated by a media who hates large highly profitable companies.
There is this presumption that every pharm company or large corporation is out to get you when in reality it is actually a misconception perpetuated by a media who hates large highly profitable companies.
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