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Who'd you rather-Dion Jordan at 15 or Chase Thomas at 75
Posted on 2/9/13 at 3:21 pm
Posted on 2/9/13 at 3:21 pm
Even if Wilson and Galette turn into the next Swilling and Jackson at olb, who's going to back them up...Chamberlain, Herring, Casillas? Imo, none of these guys could be more than a situational sub.
Obviously there are other olb prospects in the draft but I'm looking at these two because of their projected draft slots. Now straight up, without a doubt Jordan would be the pick strictly due to upside but would he be worth more as a 1st compared to Thomas in the 3rd? Both are supposed to be decent in coverage, Thomas probably better against the run. Jordan is obviously considered the better rush prospect but Thomas isn't considered too bad himself. Thomas can also project to the ilb, so he has that scheme versatility. Throw away his horrible Senior Bowl as he definitely shouldn't be playing olb in a 4-3. Both are in the mid 240 wt. range but Jordan is 4 in. taller. Btw, most of my opinion derives from Walter's and CBS's analysis, some from the bowl games.
I personally would prefer Thomas if there were a toss-up between the two at these respective draft slots. He might not ever be a superstar but would probably be a good dependable baller for years and good value at 75. Jordan might actually become a star, then again, maybe not.
Now if the LT position is taken care of pre-draft, I might change my mind about Jordan and consider him a good value. But until that happens I could see the 15 being used on one the big 3 LT's in the draft if any were to fall that far or else using it as trade bait for a reliable vet with a reasonable salary, which Bushrod probably won't have in a few more months.
Obviously there are other olb prospects in the draft but I'm looking at these two because of their projected draft slots. Now straight up, without a doubt Jordan would be the pick strictly due to upside but would he be worth more as a 1st compared to Thomas in the 3rd? Both are supposed to be decent in coverage, Thomas probably better against the run. Jordan is obviously considered the better rush prospect but Thomas isn't considered too bad himself. Thomas can also project to the ilb, so he has that scheme versatility. Throw away his horrible Senior Bowl as he definitely shouldn't be playing olb in a 4-3. Both are in the mid 240 wt. range but Jordan is 4 in. taller. Btw, most of my opinion derives from Walter's and CBS's analysis, some from the bowl games.
I personally would prefer Thomas if there were a toss-up between the two at these respective draft slots. He might not ever be a superstar but would probably be a good dependable baller for years and good value at 75. Jordan might actually become a star, then again, maybe not.
Now if the LT position is taken care of pre-draft, I might change my mind about Jordan and consider him a good value. But until that happens I could see the 15 being used on one the big 3 LT's in the draft if any were to fall that far or else using it as trade bait for a reliable vet with a reasonable salary, which Bushrod probably won't have in a few more months.
4
Posted on 2/9/13 at 3:30 pm to monroesaintsfan
Depends on who else is there at 15.
I really like Chase Thomas, though. He didn't put up big sack numbers but his QB pressures were pretty consistent. He's a nice player.
I really like Chase Thomas, though. He didn't put up big sack numbers but his QB pressures were pretty consistent. He's a nice player.
Posted on 2/9/13 at 3:30 pm to monroesaintsfan
quote:
Imo, none of these guys could be more than a situational sub.
You mean....
A backup?
Like in the situation one of the starters is hurt, we sub them in?
Posted on 2/9/13 at 3:35 pm to Breesus
I think he means like "it's 3rd and long this is clearly a passing situation so we better put in our situational subs because this a perfect situation to get a sack and bring up a punting situation"
Posted on 2/9/13 at 3:42 pm to Breesus
"Like in the situation one of the starters is hurt, we sub them in?"
When I think of any of those guys I quoted, I think of them situational, period. Like Casillas occasionaly rushing or in coverage, Chamberlain on run downs and some coverage. Herring getting the real players a drink of water and a nice clean towel on occasion. I don't personally see any of them as a 3 down player in a 3-4. I hope I'm wrong. I didn't mention Vilma but I believe he'd move inside if he stays...I also didn't mention Hawthore, he might be able to project outside in a 3-4, too. Probably better for him to be inside though.
When I think of any of those guys I quoted, I think of them situational, period. Like Casillas occasionaly rushing or in coverage, Chamberlain on run downs and some coverage. Herring getting the real players a drink of water and a nice clean towel on occasion. I don't personally see any of them as a 3 down player in a 3-4. I hope I'm wrong. I didn't mention Vilma but I believe he'd move inside if he stays...I also didn't mention Hawthore, he might be able to project outside in a 3-4, too. Probably better for him to be inside though.
Posted on 2/9/13 at 3:49 pm to monroesaintsfan
i was thinking casillas could be our ahmad brooks from the 49ers. brooks was a true wlb/slb then he has been a rush linebacker that goes in coverage sometimes.
Posted on 2/9/13 at 3:52 pm to monroesaintsfan
I want Jonathan Banks or Mingo... I keep watching Jordan and see very little production
Posted on 2/9/13 at 3:57 pm to 41bengal
"i was thinking casillas could be our ahmad brooks"
Brooks is about 30 lbs. heavier and a couple of inches taller. I wonder if Casillas could hold up on a 3 down basis at his size.
One player on the roster who I'm curious about in the way he'll be used is Braylon Broughton. He was up in the 270 range last year but when he came out of college he was around 257 and ran a 4.55 at his proday. They've kept him on the ps for a reason. Hopefully it wasn't just to be a 4-3 de.
Brooks is about 30 lbs. heavier and a couple of inches taller. I wonder if Casillas could hold up on a 3 down basis at his size.
One player on the roster who I'm curious about in the way he'll be used is Braylon Broughton. He was up in the 270 range last year but when he came out of college he was around 257 and ran a 4.55 at his proday. They've kept him on the ps for a reason. Hopefully it wasn't just to be a 4-3 de.
Posted on 2/9/13 at 4:04 pm to monroesaintsfan
1. Press the quote button. Italics and quotations is weird
2. Situational guys are backups. If we had a guy on our bench good enough to start he would be starting somewhere.
2. Situational guys are backups. If we had a guy on our bench good enough to start he would be starting somewhere.
Posted on 2/9/13 at 4:06 pm to monroesaintsfan
"I want Jonathan Banks or Mingo"
I like Mingo better myself, too. I didn't include him because most of the sites I go to have him going before 15. One advantage Jordan does have though is he can pass cover. Can Mingo? He did play some olb in high school, I believe but I don't remember him ever being used in coverage at LSU.
I still think it's gotta be ot unless something happens pre-draft...unless of course all of the big 3 are gone.
I like Mingo better myself, too. I didn't include him because most of the sites I go to have him going before 15. One advantage Jordan does have though is he can pass cover. Can Mingo? He did play some olb in high school, I believe but I don't remember him ever being used in coverage at LSU.
I still think it's gotta be ot unless something happens pre-draft...unless of course all of the big 3 are gone.
This post was edited on 2/9/13 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 2/9/13 at 4:12 pm to monroesaintsfan
"One advantage Jordan does have though is he can pass cover. Can Mingo?"
Yes
Yes
Posted on 2/9/13 at 4:19 pm to BarbeTiger
the main reason mingo had a dip in stats was cause they used him more in coverage this year than last.
Posted on 2/9/13 at 4:26 pm to monroesaintsfan
quote:
He did play some olb in high school,
This was his main position I remember playing against them my Sophomore year. He was converted in college
Posted on 2/9/13 at 4:28 pm to monroesaintsfan
quote:
Situational guys are backups.
I agree...which is why I pretty much said that in my op. The difference is a good situational guy doesn't necessarily make a good total package backup. Think Galette as a 4-3 de or Ivory as a 3 down back.
quote:
If we had a guy on our bench good enough to start he would be starting somewhere.
No kidding.
Thanks on the quote thing.
This post was edited on 2/9/13 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 2/9/13 at 6:02 pm to 41bengal
quote:I may be wrong but i don't think he ever played lb last year. I don't remember him ever dropping back into coverage. Like I said I could be wrong
the main reason mingo had a dip in stats was cause they used him more in coverage this year than last.
Posted on 2/9/13 at 8:26 pm to Melvin
I dont think Mingo sniffs pick 15
Posted on 2/11/13 at 1:37 pm to monroesaintsfan
Bottom line, there are more good pass rushing OLB's later in the draft than potential starting LT's. You can get better value later in the draft at OLB. The only reason this is even a discussion is because people are convinced the Saints can find another gem on the o-line late in the draft. Me personally, I would rather gamble on a pass rusher in later rounds than on a rookie who will be protecting our franchise player. It would be different if they had a year or 2 to develop this player, but they don't.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 1:55 pm to landrywasbeast30
all to be seen in how free agency plays out
With Loomies track record I'd guess it very likely that someone will be signed capable of plugging into LT. If not Bushrod then some affordable UFA. I've pimped Bryant McKinnie as such an answer in other threads.
Filling the holes with not necessarily the complete answer to provide full flexibility on draft day is his history. Go in and you can take whichever player you think helps your team most without regard to need then. Say a Dion Jordan, Lane Johnson, and NT Hankins are all available. Eliminating the overwhelming need allows you to go full BPA vs. pressing cuz ya hafta.
With Loomies track record I'd guess it very likely that someone will be signed capable of plugging into LT. If not Bushrod then some affordable UFA. I've pimped Bryant McKinnie as such an answer in other threads.
Filling the holes with not necessarily the complete answer to provide full flexibility on draft day is his history. Go in and you can take whichever player you think helps your team most without regard to need then. Say a Dion Jordan, Lane Johnson, and NT Hankins are all available. Eliminating the overwhelming need allows you to go full BPA vs. pressing cuz ya hafta.
Posted on 2/11/13 at 4:35 pm to blueslover
quote:
If not Bushrod then some affordable UFA. I've pimped Bryant McKinnie as such an answer in other threads.
I could get on board with this scenario. A dependable, low-priced vet to use as a stopgap for a couple of years.
I also wouldn't mind seeing a nt vet such as Aubrayo Franklin, who while he wasn't cheap 2 years ago, won't get that kind of money this year. He was also completely out of position two years ago. If not a low priced vet like Franklin to pair with Bunkley on the nose, then a draft pick for nt becomes a need which as you stated goes against the BPA Loomis strategy. Too bad we don't have a 2nd rounder for a player like Brandon Williams who would probably fill both BPA and need. But other than Lotulelei, none of those other guys look like good value at 15 to me. Maybe Geathers in the 3rd wouldn't be too bad a choice.
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