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Started By
Message
re: Prisco Rates Brees 5th Best Player in NFL
Posted on 6/29/09 at 12:07 pm to SJS Eagle 85
Posted on 6/29/09 at 12:07 pm to SJS Eagle 85
Last time I checked people looked at what happened on the damned field, not hypothetical bullshite they make up from some NFL Fantasy league in their heads.
Career Numbers:
Tom Brady:
G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
113 2301 3653 63.0 26446 7.2 197 91 86 92.9
Peyton Manning:
G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
176 3839 5960 64.4 45628 7.7 333 86 165 94.0
Drew Brees:
G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
107 2334 3650 63.9 26258 7.2 168 86 99 89.4
Big Ben:
G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
72 1189 1905 62.4 14974 7.9 101 85 69 89.4
Now, please look at these career stats and tell me where he is "crappy". He's not a coach on the field, he's not an "amazing" late round draft pick that made it, and he's not an inspiring comeback story. He throws a bit too many ints but really...(see Brett Favre). He doesn't have amazing backfield elusiveness or ball skills or whatever the frick people call it, he just stepped in and took over a team that put defense and pounding the ball above all else. That's what they have done, do now, and will not stop doing anytime soon I imagine. Could Peyton or Brady or whoever have done better? Sure. But it's also possible that they wouldn't. I beleive that's why they play the game.
Career Numbers:
Tom Brady:
G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
113 2301 3653 63.0 26446 7.2 197 91 86 92.9
Peyton Manning:
G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
176 3839 5960 64.4 45628 7.7 333 86 165 94.0
Drew Brees:
G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
107 2334 3650 63.9 26258 7.2 168 86 99 89.4
Big Ben:
G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
72 1189 1905 62.4 14974 7.9 101 85 69 89.4
Now, please look at these career stats and tell me where he is "crappy". He's not a coach on the field, he's not an "amazing" late round draft pick that made it, and he's not an inspiring comeback story. He throws a bit too many ints but really...(see Brett Favre). He doesn't have amazing backfield elusiveness or ball skills or whatever the frick people call it, he just stepped in and took over a team that put defense and pounding the ball above all else. That's what they have done, do now, and will not stop doing anytime soon I imagine. Could Peyton or Brady or whoever have done better? Sure. But it's also possible that they wouldn't. I beleive that's why they play the game.
1
Posted on 6/29/09 at 12:09 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Sophandros: So in your little world, Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino, I guess. After all Dilfer has a ring
Nope, in mine you are just stupid.
Posted on 6/29/09 at 12:18 pm to jmj31182
quote:The question that was posed you pissy little shite was best player and if you thing Rothlisberger's play at QB is better that Brees' then you're fricking delusional.
Last time I checked people looked at what happened on the damned field, not hypothetical bullshite they make up from some NFL Fantasy league in their heads.
If you won't acknowledge stats then fine. Acknowledge this assclown. Brees does more with less than any player in the fricking league. Especially Rothlisberger.
I like Ben but he can't hold Drew's jock.
This post was edited on 6/29/09 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 6/29/09 at 12:26 pm to SJS Eagle 85
Yeah yeah, like I said, I choose to not use unprovable hypothetical bullshite to back myself up. And I do know the question was best player, but the conversation has evolved, as they sometimes do, to being about quarterbacks. I gave my opinion, then defended it.
Hmmm...was I not the one who just posted them (see above)? Is your monitor jacked up? And what's an "assclown" got to do with anything?
quote:
If you won't acknowledge stats then fine. Acknowledge this assclown. Brees does more with less than any player in the fricking league. Especially Rothlisberger
Hmmm...was I not the one who just posted them (see above)? Is your monitor jacked up? And what's an "assclown" got to do with anything?
Posted on 6/29/09 at 12:41 pm to SJS Eagle 85
I think the Steelers would have won with Garcia, he's pretty underrated as far as I'm concerned.
And no, Big Ben isn't crappy, but just b/c he has those rings doesn't make him a top 3 QB. He's good, i'd say top 10 prob 7-9 range.
And no, Big Ben isn't crappy, but just b/c he has those rings doesn't make him a top 3 QB. He's good, i'd say top 10 prob 7-9 range.
Posted on 6/29/09 at 12:46 pm to ctalati32
+1
Posted on 6/29/09 at 12:49 pm to SJS Eagle 85
quote:
The Steelers have a better winning percentage. Last time I checked he hasn't been asked to block, tackle, catch or cover. The Steelers are an excellent team and Ben Rothlisberger is a very good game manager but to put him in the category of elite QB is naive and ignorant. You substitute him with Manning, Brady, Brees, or Warner and the Steelers still have a superbowl contender. If he's under center in Arizona the Cardinals don't go to the playoffs much less the superbowl last year.
I completely agree with you, But when you think football and winning your first thought is QB. Plain and simple he has a better win %.
Posted on 6/29/09 at 12:52 pm to jmj31182
quote:This is the dumbest thing you've said so far
I choose to not use unprovable hypothetical bullshite to back myself up
quote:This would be second dumbest you hypocrite.
Hmmm...was I not the one who just posted them (see above)?
quote:No. It hasn't evolved. It's still the same question. It's still about the best players. And when someone questioned you putting Ben above Drew your argument was that he has 2 rings. And while owning two rings does mean that you play for a great team it doesn't necessarily make you a great player.
And I do know the question was best player, but the conversation has evolved
Posted on 6/29/09 at 1:18 pm to SJS Eagle 85
quote:
quote:
I choose to not use unprovable hypothetical bullshite to back myself up
This is the dumbest thing you've said so far
How so? I look at his winning % and his stats, that's something concrete. You obviously, well, don't.
quote:
quote:
Hmmm...was I not the one who just posted them (see above)?
This would be second dumbest you hypocrite.
What? How is anything about that dumb? Or make me a hypocrite? Are you reading something I'm not? quote:
quote:
And I do know the question was best player, but the conversation has evolved
No. It hasn't evolved. It's still the same question. It's still about the best players. And when someone questioned you putting Ben above Drew your argument was that he has 2 rings. And while owning two rings does mean that you play for a great team it doesn't necessarily make you a great player.
Exactly, someone questioned why I said that, so I responded due to his hardware and his stats, which are comparable to Brady and Peyton. I'm not even sure what you are arguing about anymore. And no, I have no idea if Big Ben can hold Drew's jock, why would I care? I certainly didn't respond with:
"Well, if Big Ben would have been playing with the 49ers instead of Montana, he could have won more championships. Montana can't hold Big Ben's jock!"
That pretty much sums up what you just did. Pretty stupid, am I right?
And yes, Drew has piled up stupidly good stats as a Saint, but he also hasn't won a damned thing. Marino will always be known as the best QB...................to never win a Championship.
Posted on 6/29/09 at 1:23 pm to jmj31182
quote:
Sophandros: So in your little world, Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino, I guess. After all Dilfer has a ring
Nope, in mine you are just stupid.
That's laughable coming from someone who uses the most weak argument EVER in sports (the "rings" argument). There are so many factors that are beyond a quarterback's control that go into winning a championship, and since postseason in general (and SBs specifically) are such a small sample of a QB's work, one can not weigh those as much as regular season work. In other words, the regular season body of work is MUCH more representative of a player's quality.
So yes, you are foolish to point only at playoff success by the QB's team when comparing two QBs, especially when it was quite clear that Big Ben's teams won despite him, not because of him, in the Super Bowl.
Posted on 6/29/09 at 2:45 pm to jmj31182
quote:His winning percentage?How many tackles did he have last year? How many sacks? Is Ben a Cover 2 or more of a Man-to-Man DB? You're right. He is the best player. He single-handedly brought a Lombardi Trophy to Pittsburgh last year.
How so? I look at his winning % and his stats, that's something concrete. You obviously, well, don't.
How is it not, dumbass? You said...
quote:just before you posted an arse load of stats.
I choose to not use unprovable hypothetical bullshite to back myself up
quote:The frick they are!!! Ben's only thrown for over 18 TDs once in his life. His highest yardage in a season is 3515. That's a disappointing season compared to Brady or Peyton. On top of that he's a sack magnet because he holds on to the ball too long. The last 3 seasons he's been approaching David Carr numbers.
his stats, which are comparable to Brady and Peyton.
quote:Dude if you insist on acting like a hard headed douchebag expect to get treated like one. Done.
And yes, Drew has piled up stupidly good stats as a Saint, but he also hasn't won a damned thing.
Posted on 6/30/09 at 3:02 am to Ibleedblackandgold
quote:
Can't really laugh at the guy. Nobody has a better win % then he does since he has started. Guy got hit by a car and had appendicitis and still played football like a madman. I'm all about Brees Manning and Brady being up there but Big Ben will be there sooner than later.
Steeler's are my 2nd favorite team and Big Ben is perfect for them, but he is on the 2nd tier of QB's in the NFL. Brees, Manning, Brady and McNabb are all better QB's.
I guess Flaco is one of the best because his team did so well last season
Posted on 6/30/09 at 4:05 am to jmj31182
quote:
And yes, Drew has piled up stupidly good stats as a Saint, but he also hasn't won a damned thing. Marino will always be known as the best QB...................to never win a Championship.
This is ridiculous. It isn't his fault he hasn't won anything yet. He isn't the one blowing coverages and letting backs break big runs. Our team was 8-8 last season. If it wasn't for Drew, they probably would have been like 3-13 or 4-12. What would the Steelers have been without Big Ben? I like Big Ben and all, but for you to say he's better than Drew is stupid, just plain stupid. I'll ask you a question, would you take Big Ben over Drew as your qb?
Posted on 6/30/09 at 11:54 am to F machine
While Big Ben has been in Pitt, they are 6-2 in games where he is injured and didn't play. They win because of defense
Posted on 6/30/09 at 12:21 pm to SJS Eagle 85
I listen to NFL radio all the time and Ben is always #3 behind Brady and Manning whenever anyone starts naming off the top QBs in the league. If you all want to diminish his accomplishments/ability/talent then go ahead but you all are in the minority. He is an elite QB.
Posted on 7/1/09 at 12:28 am to alajones
quote:
I listen to NFL radio all the time and Ben is always #3 behind Brady and Manning whenever anyone starts naming off the top QBs in the league.
Oh yeah, those people on the radio always know everything.
Posted on 7/1/09 at 6:17 am to jmj31182
quote:
And yes, Drew has piled up stupidly good stats as a Saint, but he also hasn't won a damned thing. Marino will always be known as the best QB...................to never win a Championship.
Your argument sounds centered around the players' legacies, rather than simply answering the question: who is a better player? Do you believe Brad Johnson is a better quarterback as well? There are too many factors that impact team success beyond that of the qb position that it really makes for a weak argument.
So, can we agree that rings are a better indicator of legacy than ability?
Well, moving on to the stats you posted. Personally, I don't think it's wise to use career stats in this argument. Prisco's article deals with who the current best players in the league are. You should look at recent statistics to answer that question... and clearly... CLEARLY... the stats favor Brees.
If you want to let the conversation evolve to one about legacy, HOF potential, career statistics, etc.... go for it. But, if you want to answer the original question - who is the better player? - the answer is Brees. And it's universally known.
This post was edited on 7/1/09 at 6:20 am
Posted on 7/1/09 at 10:12 am to F machine
quote:I give them more credit than I do the posters on this board.
Oh yeah, those people on the radio always know everything.
Posted on 7/1/09 at 10:25 am to alajones
quote:
I listen to NFL radio all the time and Ben is always #3 behind Brady and Manning whenever anyone starts naming off the top QBs in the league
I never hear this. I'm sure it's possible that there's a list out there with Ben at #3 but almost everyone I've seen has Drew at #3.
quote:This is laughable. He's 2nd teir and a good game manager and for Ben (or any player for that matter) to get credit for 2 superbowl championships is naive and disrepectful to the talent and hard work of the other 51 players, coaching staff, and front office members. The Steelers won two Superbowls despite Ben's play.
He is an elite QB.
Posted on 7/1/09 at 10:26 am to alajones
quote:You should stop spending so much time in the "jungle". Don't be a "clone".
I give them more credit than I do the posters on this board.
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