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Started By
Message
Injuries on Defense w/Greer & Butler comments
Posted on 1/18/14 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 1/18/14 at 1:01 pm
STORY
the defensive turnaround is all the more amazing when you consider-
Victor Butler- signed for OLB pass rush, never saw a down, will return to team with Juneyah's 12 sacks
Kenyon Coleman- done in preseason, questionable if he would be back
PRob- IRed in Spetember, final year of rookie contract in 2014
Bunkley was inactive from injury the first 5 weeks
Glenn Foster- showed some real spark when he was healthy, on the injury report 8 weeks
Walker- on the injury report every week until December
Greer- out the last 8 weeks (and it showed), we'll see for next year
Hicks- didn't miss games but was on the injury report 7 weeks
Tom Johnson- invisible the first half of the season from injuries
Cameron Jordan- even made the injury report 5 weeks
Will Smith- likely finished his time here IRed- maybe a blessing in disguise. The living example of the dangers of rolling contract/cap numbers forward.
Vilma- don't think there was much expectation but his nothingness still took almost $4mil of cap
“Although God's timetable may be a little different than mine, I hope to be ready by camp,” Greer said. “The (physical therapy) staff has been really challenging and encouraging me, and I try to compete in the training room with guys like Pat, A.J. Davis and Joe Morgan.”
“I’m foaming at the mouth,” Butler said. “I’ve taken a couple of DVDs home with me – I say a couple – 15 just to watch film from this and watch the guys so next year when I get back, it’s like I never missed a beat. I want to play football and I want to play with this group.”
He added, “If I didn’t have bills and stuff to pay, I’d probably do it for free. But you gotta take care of momma and you got to take care of the light bill and the last I checked, the car note isn’t free so you’ve got to get paid. But I love playing the game of football and it’s even better when you’ve got a group of guys like this around you.”
dayum! that makes me have to post the beastly pic again
the defensive turnaround is all the more amazing when you consider-
Victor Butler- signed for OLB pass rush, never saw a down, will return to team with Juneyah's 12 sacks
Kenyon Coleman- done in preseason, questionable if he would be back
PRob- IRed in Spetember, final year of rookie contract in 2014
Bunkley was inactive from injury the first 5 weeks
Glenn Foster- showed some real spark when he was healthy, on the injury report 8 weeks
Walker- on the injury report every week until December
Greer- out the last 8 weeks (and it showed), we'll see for next year
Hicks- didn't miss games but was on the injury report 7 weeks
Tom Johnson- invisible the first half of the season from injuries
Cameron Jordan- even made the injury report 5 weeks
Will Smith- likely finished his time here IRed- maybe a blessing in disguise. The living example of the dangers of rolling contract/cap numbers forward.
Vilma- don't think there was much expectation but his nothingness still took almost $4mil of cap
“Although God's timetable may be a little different than mine, I hope to be ready by camp,” Greer said. “The (physical therapy) staff has been really challenging and encouraging me, and I try to compete in the training room with guys like Pat, A.J. Davis and Joe Morgan.”
“I’m foaming at the mouth,” Butler said. “I’ve taken a couple of DVDs home with me – I say a couple – 15 just to watch film from this and watch the guys so next year when I get back, it’s like I never missed a beat. I want to play football and I want to play with this group.”
He added, “If I didn’t have bills and stuff to pay, I’d probably do it for free. But you gotta take care of momma and you got to take care of the light bill and the last I checked, the car note isn’t free so you’ve got to get paid. But I love playing the game of football and it’s even better when you’ve got a group of guys like this around you.”
dayum! that makes me have to post the beastly pic again
5
Posted on 1/18/14 at 1:08 pm to blueslover
I really can't wait for butler to play.
Dude was legit in limited snaps in Dallas.
Dude was legit in limited snaps in Dallas.
Posted on 1/18/14 at 1:15 pm to blueslover
this is all assuming that ingram doesnt take out half the defense during camp
Posted on 1/18/14 at 1:31 pm to blueslover
It's amazing that our defense could easily get better next season with all those guys returning (except Greer most likely). I hate to say it but if we have similar numbers next year we may see Ryan as a head coach, long hair and everything.
Posted on 1/18/14 at 1:54 pm to BlacknGold
quote:
This is assuming that Ingram doesn't take out half the defense during camp
Posted on 1/18/14 at 2:09 pm to blueslover
Add the timing of the Vaccaro injury and you start to think either the defense was cursed or ridiculously unlucky.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 9:13 am to smash williams
It was an amazing turnaround on D. Who isn't excited about the prospects going forward? There are as many, or prolly more, positional questions this offseason as ever in the Payton era. Even with that I like the outlook. In fact, the majority of possible departures on defense I think could be as much a blessing as loss.
Unrestricted Free Agents
Jenkins- I'm guessing he'll be back. He's my biggest fear of possible players they will overpay for. He makes some plays but he whiffs from bad angles and poor tackling far more than I like in a starting player. Praying a deal will be more team friendly than towards overpaying
Keyunta Dawson- liked him for a backup and ST player. Should be cheap
Vilma- retirement expected
Haralson- I liked him as a role player also. Could see him depart for an opportunity of more reps. Otherwise, should be re-signable for not too much
Kenyon Coleman- we never knew ye. IRed in camp. Prolly more an issue of what he has left at age 35 if they want him back
Ramon Humber- his play and role seemed quite reduced with less 4-3. Not a biggie one way or another
Will Herring- looked like a weak link when he was on the field IMO. He was signed to be a ST leader tho. Another that could as easily be gone as back.
Restricted Free Agents
Rafael Bush- should be able to tender at minimum and not worry about losing him
Tom Johnson- thought the former CFLer would turn out to be more. Not as good of a fit out of the 4-3 IMO. Letting him walk or sign at minimum will be no surprise.
Exclusive Rights Free Agent
Trevin Wade, Kyle Knox,Terrence Fredrick- all these guys are fringe roster players. Wade prolly the most snaps. No biggie stay or go.
Contracted Players who could be cut or do new deals
Will Smith- cutting is a given
Bunkley- cumbersome cap number but doesn't look cuttable
Harper- cut or back at a reduced rate ($3.7mil dead money to cut)
Lofton & Hawthorne- could do new deals to push money forward but I'm really hoping to not see that
Greer- just a matter of how he recovers. At age 32 and almost $6mil cap hit he'll have to be 100%+ to keep IMO
Cameron Jordan- last year of rookie contract; if enough cap space is made he could be extended
PRob- kinda on the bubble at $2.4mil to keep or save $1mil to cut. Likely back with Greer's uncertainty
Unrestricted Free Agents
Jenkins- I'm guessing he'll be back. He's my biggest fear of possible players they will overpay for. He makes some plays but he whiffs from bad angles and poor tackling far more than I like in a starting player. Praying a deal will be more team friendly than towards overpaying
Keyunta Dawson- liked him for a backup and ST player. Should be cheap
Vilma- retirement expected
Haralson- I liked him as a role player also. Could see him depart for an opportunity of more reps. Otherwise, should be re-signable for not too much
Kenyon Coleman- we never knew ye. IRed in camp. Prolly more an issue of what he has left at age 35 if they want him back
Ramon Humber- his play and role seemed quite reduced with less 4-3. Not a biggie one way or another
Will Herring- looked like a weak link when he was on the field IMO. He was signed to be a ST leader tho. Another that could as easily be gone as back.
Restricted Free Agents
Rafael Bush- should be able to tender at minimum and not worry about losing him
Tom Johnson- thought the former CFLer would turn out to be more. Not as good of a fit out of the 4-3 IMO. Letting him walk or sign at minimum will be no surprise.
Exclusive Rights Free Agent
Trevin Wade, Kyle Knox,Terrence Fredrick- all these guys are fringe roster players. Wade prolly the most snaps. No biggie stay or go.
Contracted Players who could be cut or do new deals
Will Smith- cutting is a given
Bunkley- cumbersome cap number but doesn't look cuttable
Harper- cut or back at a reduced rate ($3.7mil dead money to cut)
Lofton & Hawthorne- could do new deals to push money forward but I'm really hoping to not see that
Greer- just a matter of how he recovers. At age 32 and almost $6mil cap hit he'll have to be 100%+ to keep IMO
Cameron Jordan- last year of rookie contract; if enough cap space is made he could be extended
PRob- kinda on the bubble at $2.4mil to keep or save $1mil to cut. Likely back with Greer's uncertainty
Posted on 1/20/14 at 9:39 am to blueslover
quote:
Ramon Humber- his play and role seemed quite reduced with less 4-3. Not a biggie one way or another
Not as good of a fit out of the 4-3 IMO
keep in mind that we were mostly a 4-3 this season due to all the injuries. Ryan was great with adjustments and did so accordingly. He used a great mix of alignments all year, but 4-3 was very dominant.
Next year should convert to a 3-4 heavy alignment with all the necessary pieces in place
Posted on 1/20/14 at 9:40 am to Midget Death Squad
Hoping reddick develpes nicely
Posted on 1/20/14 at 9:51 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
keep in mind that we were mostly a 4-3 this season due to all the injuries. Ryan was great with adjustments and did so accordingly. He used a great mix of alignments all year, but 4-3 was very dominant.
If I was guessing I think the 4-2-5 was the most commonly used defensive lineup this year. In any case, Humber didn't look near as effective as he did in the past to me.
Amen Chad. Don't be surprised if Reddick turns into a player. He was on virtually every list of Top 5 Undrafted Players last year. He might have played every snap on STs.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 9:53 am to Midget Death Squad
I thought we played better football in our 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 sets. Could've also been a result from the injuries as well I guess.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 10:07 am to seibert23
One thing I'm looking forward to a lot is the continued development of John Jenkins. When we roll more 3-4 his reps and opportunities should increase.
Anyone remember this time last year on him? There was discussion of whether he might be 1st Rd talent. The consensus was not but more from lack of reps/experience than skills. The guy could end up a monster at nose IMO.
Armstead was talked about as a potential 1st Rder too. Same thing- off the charts skills, just lack of experience and needing some polishing of techniques. Both are looking like potential HR 3rd Rd picks like Graham was.
Anyone remember this time last year on him? There was discussion of whether he might be 1st Rd talent. The consensus was not but more from lack of reps/experience than skills. The guy could end up a monster at nose IMO.
Armstead was talked about as a potential 1st Rder too. Same thing- off the charts skills, just lack of experience and needing some polishing of techniques. Both are looking like potential HR 3rd Rd picks like Graham was.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 10:12 am to blueslover
quote:
Cameron Jordan- last year of rookie contract; if enough cap space is made he could be extended
You're forgetting the 5th year option for 1st rounders now. That would keep him around for another year(2015) at a reasonable rate and that is when we may look to extend.
Absolutely no need to extend him this offseason unless they think he will double his production or something crazy like that.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 10:18 am to blueslover
quote:
4-2-5 was the most commonly used defensive lineup this year.
Yup. Depending on whether Galette had a hand down or not, it was a ton of 3-3-5 and 4-2-5, but with a 3rd safety instead of a 3rd corner.
A note on John Jenkins and Bunkley. While Jenkins has flashed plenty of potential and is the better pass rusher out of the 2, Bunkley is at the moment far and away the best interior run stuffer we have(Jordan is our best edge run stuffer).
That was a huge problem for us when we paid Bunkley and Spags refused to use him. Teams gashed us like crazy on the run.
While I would love for Jenkins to develop enough to phase out Bunkley, until that time comes Bunkley is a huge piece of our defense that is vastly underrated.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 10:18 am to blueslover
Adding another corner to the mix of Lewis, Greer, Robinson, and White will make a great group of CBs. I'm excited to see what Butler will bring next year as well. Our nucleus of young defensive players is really impressive: Cam, Junior, Hicks, Vaccaro, John Jenkins, and then you get into guys who didn't have a chance to contribute because of injuries, or just played a smaller role in Butler, Foster, and Walker.
Another piece or two from the draft and FA than can contribute next year, and this D will be scary.
Another piece or two from the draft and FA than can contribute next year, and this D will be scary.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 10:20 am to bonethug0108
kewlio, the Grubbs/Evans & Lofton/Hawthorne deals are gonna be tough the next coupla year. Really really hoping we can get by without rolling those forward. They'll be several young guys like Jordan that will be in line for their checks in 2015.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 10:42 am to blueslover
@mm It wouldn't be nice, it's an absolute need to get another starting caliber corner in case Greer is done(or done done).
With PRob never showing he can be a full time starter and White showing he can't play the deep ball for shite, we need to get a legit number 2 as the eventual or current replacement for Greer.
We have all these nickel guys(PRob, White, Vaccaro, Jenkins) but Greer was the only other true outside corner we had to put with Lewis.
@blues Lofton has an out in 2015($4 mil savings to $5 mil dead money which can be spread out to further increase that $4 mil) that we may have to take if we don't restructure him.
Same deal with Hawthorne in 2015(about $3 mil savings to about $3 mil dead money which can be spread out to save more).
We are stuck with them this year though as both would cost cap to cut. I actually like that setup though as it allows us 2 years to try to draft or sign one or both of their replacements and allows us to see how the come out in year 2 of Ryan's system.
On Grubbs and Evans, if we were THAT cash strapped would could cut Evans this year and save $2.5 mil, but it would make more sense to restructure him. Grubbs would only make sense as a restructure this year as even a minor restructure would save more than the $100,000 we get for cutting him.
Evans situation actually tips in 2015 where we'd save more cutting him($6 mil) than the dead money that would be left($5 mil would could be further spread out to increase the $6 mil in savings).
Grubbs in 2015 would be in Evans situation in 2014. Saves $3.6 mil if cut with $6 mil in dead money that could be split to increase savings. A restructure may make more sense if we really need the cash.
In 2016 Grubbs actually makes sense to cut unless he has been playing lights out.
So really out of Grubbs, Evans, Lofton, and Hawthorne, we are really only dead stuck with 3 this year(though Evans isn't going anywhere) but we have no replacements for them anyway.
Next year we really aren't stuck with any of them, but Grubbs doesn't make much sense as a cut unless he is playing terribly.
With PRob never showing he can be a full time starter and White showing he can't play the deep ball for shite, we need to get a legit number 2 as the eventual or current replacement for Greer.
We have all these nickel guys(PRob, White, Vaccaro, Jenkins) but Greer was the only other true outside corner we had to put with Lewis.
@blues Lofton has an out in 2015($4 mil savings to $5 mil dead money which can be spread out to further increase that $4 mil) that we may have to take if we don't restructure him.
Same deal with Hawthorne in 2015(about $3 mil savings to about $3 mil dead money which can be spread out to save more).
We are stuck with them this year though as both would cost cap to cut. I actually like that setup though as it allows us 2 years to try to draft or sign one or both of their replacements and allows us to see how the come out in year 2 of Ryan's system.
On Grubbs and Evans, if we were THAT cash strapped would could cut Evans this year and save $2.5 mil, but it would make more sense to restructure him. Grubbs would only make sense as a restructure this year as even a minor restructure would save more than the $100,000 we get for cutting him.
Evans situation actually tips in 2015 where we'd save more cutting him($6 mil) than the dead money that would be left($5 mil would could be further spread out to increase the $6 mil in savings).
Grubbs in 2015 would be in Evans situation in 2014. Saves $3.6 mil if cut with $6 mil in dead money that could be split to increase savings. A restructure may make more sense if we really need the cash.
In 2016 Grubbs actually makes sense to cut unless he has been playing lights out.
So really out of Grubbs, Evans, Lofton, and Hawthorne, we are really only dead stuck with 3 this year(though Evans isn't going anywhere) but we have no replacements for them anyway.
Next year we really aren't stuck with any of them, but Grubbs doesn't make much sense as a cut unless he is playing terribly.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 11:15 am to bonethug0108
Seems like plenty of peeps propose getting player X without any regard to contract/cap implications. Another large group say cut player Y just on cost basis without any thought of replacing the production. Where I give Loomis much credit is the art of making both of those meet.
The actual personnel decisions as pertaining to player performance I think are more on Payton, reiprish, etc. I think that is reflected in Loomis as the GM in the Haslett era. It seemed every year back then there was a contract given or player acquired that I questioned deeply. It's quite comforting to have confidence knowing now that Loomis can make it happen with the right team around him.
The actual personnel decisions as pertaining to player performance I think are more on Payton, reiprish, etc. I think that is reflected in Loomis as the GM in the Haslett era. It seemed every year back then there was a contract given or player acquired that I questioned deeply. It's quite comforting to have confidence knowing now that Loomis can make it happen with the right team around him.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:08 pm to blueslover
Cut Greer sign Talib make dollars work y'all holla
Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:17 pm to Chad504boy
ESPN Boston says there appears to be mutual interest between the Patriots and free agent CB Aqib Talib.
A midseason hip injury crippled Talib's season, but when healthy he was among the league's most dominant defenders. A physical 6-foot-1 corner with true shadow ability, he's going to attract a ton of attention on the free agent market. If the Patriots are going to keep him, they'll have to open up their checkbook to the tune of something around the five-year, $60 million deal with $25 million guaranteed the Eagles gave Nnamdi Asomugha in 2011. Talib, now entering his age-28 season, has earned it.
-rotoworld
A midseason hip injury crippled Talib's season, but when healthy he was among the league's most dominant defenders. A physical 6-foot-1 corner with true shadow ability, he's going to attract a ton of attention on the free agent market. If the Patriots are going to keep him, they'll have to open up their checkbook to the tune of something around the five-year, $60 million deal with $25 million guaranteed the Eagles gave Nnamdi Asomugha in 2011. Talib, now entering his age-28 season, has earned it.
-rotoworld
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