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Hypothetical: does versatility in college equal versatility in the NFL?
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:20 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:20 am
Purely hypothetical question of course. Lets just make up someone for sake of discussion, lets call him...Lenny. Lenny Vagarro. Lenny is a great athlete. He is so athletic, his college football team, which has the 72nd best scoring defense in the country, uses him in all kinds of ways! They use him up near the line to support the run. They use him in press coverage to man up on wide receivers. They even sometimes use him in deep coverage! Wow! That's a lot of different things!
Now for some purely hypothetical questions about Lenny:
1) Lenny is 214 pounds. Lenny was about average at shedding blocks from the receivers he played against in college, most of whom will never see a down in the NFL. Will Lenny excel at playing near the line and in run support the NFL?
2) Lenny runs the 40 yard dash in 4.63 seconds. He is also 6 feet tall. I dont know anything about the NFL. are most starting receivers slower, or significantly faster than 4.63? are most starting receivers shorter, or significantly taller than 6'0"? If you know, can you tell me - do you think Lenny will be able to cover most receivers one on one? Boy I hope so! he plays on my favorite team!
3) Lenny was super awesome in college, but he kinda had a bad habit of taking the wrong angle in pursuit on some plays. Most of the time it wouldn't even matter though because some other guy would make the tackle! But sometimes, like when Lenny would be playing deep, like one of those safety guys, he would do this and then the other team would score! Do NFL coaches care about this much? Are they gonna gonna be big jerks and yell at Lenny? Because I like Lenny - he plays on my favorite team!
3) Lenny is hardcore! Sometimes, instead of tackling like those other boring guys, he likes to lower his shoulder and hit real hard! and then the crowd is all like, "OHHHHHHHH!" I like that. Sometimes though, he lowers his shoulder, but then the other guy like totally moves at the last second so it makes Lenny miss him. Those guys are jerks too. Also, Lenny seems to like to lower his head on tackles and target supposedly "defenseless" receivers, and earned more than a few personal fouls. Defenseless? What a joke! They're already wearing pads! I mean, NFL refs dont really care about stuff like that do they? I heard from my friend that the NFL has been removing more and more rules like that that keep cool guys like Lenny from being able to be so hardcore on the field. They're even suing more and more former players for pestering them about so called "permanent brain damage". So because of these trends, this is probably the only worry about Lenny that can pretty much be thrown out completely! Whew!
I hope you guys thinks none of these things could be a weakness for Lenny, because, I mean, he plays on my favorite team! AND HE'S SO VERSATILE! and if I were to objectively decide than one, or more, or all of these questions had a negative answer to it, well that just wouldn't make me as happy as it I didn't. And who doesn't want to be happy??? duh!
Now for some purely hypothetical questions about Lenny:
1) Lenny is 214 pounds. Lenny was about average at shedding blocks from the receivers he played against in college, most of whom will never see a down in the NFL. Will Lenny excel at playing near the line and in run support the NFL?
2) Lenny runs the 40 yard dash in 4.63 seconds. He is also 6 feet tall. I dont know anything about the NFL. are most starting receivers slower, or significantly faster than 4.63? are most starting receivers shorter, or significantly taller than 6'0"? If you know, can you tell me - do you think Lenny will be able to cover most receivers one on one? Boy I hope so! he plays on my favorite team!
3) Lenny was super awesome in college, but he kinda had a bad habit of taking the wrong angle in pursuit on some plays. Most of the time it wouldn't even matter though because some other guy would make the tackle! But sometimes, like when Lenny would be playing deep, like one of those safety guys, he would do this and then the other team would score! Do NFL coaches care about this much? Are they gonna gonna be big jerks and yell at Lenny? Because I like Lenny - he plays on my favorite team!
3) Lenny is hardcore! Sometimes, instead of tackling like those other boring guys, he likes to lower his shoulder and hit real hard! and then the crowd is all like, "OHHHHHHHH!" I like that. Sometimes though, he lowers his shoulder, but then the other guy like totally moves at the last second so it makes Lenny miss him. Those guys are jerks too. Also, Lenny seems to like to lower his head on tackles and target supposedly "defenseless" receivers, and earned more than a few personal fouls. Defenseless? What a joke! They're already wearing pads! I mean, NFL refs dont really care about stuff like that do they? I heard from my friend that the NFL has been removing more and more rules like that that keep cool guys like Lenny from being able to be so hardcore on the field. They're even suing more and more former players for pestering them about so called "permanent brain damage". So because of these trends, this is probably the only worry about Lenny that can pretty much be thrown out completely! Whew!
I hope you guys thinks none of these things could be a weakness for Lenny, because, I mean, he plays on my favorite team! AND HE'S SO VERSATILE! and if I were to objectively decide than one, or more, or all of these questions had a negative answer to it, well that just wouldn't make me as happy as it I didn't. And who doesn't want to be happy??? duh!
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 1:28 am
6
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:20 am to el duderino III
Good topic.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:23 am to el duderino III
Did you just come home from another shift to troll us again? 
You did all that typing just to look as bad as you did yesterday. Smh.
You answered the Lenny thing. thats on me.
You did all that typing just to look as bad as you did yesterday. Smh.
You answered the Lenny thing. thats on me.
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 1:32 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:25 am to JayJay2
quote:not trolling, I'm from LA and a die hard saints fan, but this pick is indefensible
Ad did you just come home from another shift to troll us again?
quote:read the whole thing
HELL is lenny
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 1:27 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:27 am to el duderino III
I did. Looked like someone who was trolling would do, or just a humorless poster.
But I digress, I probably won't respond again. I'll just sit back and wait for the responses. Should be great.
But I digress, I probably won't respond again. I'll just sit back and wait for the responses. Should be great.
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 1:28 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:29 am to JayJay2
quote:
Who the HELL is Lenny?
I think some Italian guy who plays safety.
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 1:31 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:32 am to el duderino III
Should have drafted Barvis Brones.
Dunno.
He did a fine job on Austin, who is fast as frick.
And this post could have been made for literally any draft prospect (or any NFL player). Vacarro made mistakes in college? WOW! NO shite!?
quote:
1) Lenny is 214 pounds. Lenny was about average at shedding blocks from the receivers he played against in college, most of whom will never see a down in the NFL. Will Lenny excel at playing near the line and in run support the NFL?
Dunno.
quote:
I dont know anything about the NFL. are most starting receivers slower, or significantly faster than 4.63?
He did a fine job on Austin, who is fast as frick.
And this post could have been made for literally any draft prospect (or any NFL player). Vacarro made mistakes in college? WOW! NO shite!?
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:34 am to coldhotwings
give me the readers digest version, wtf are you asking?
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:36 am to el duderino III
Sounds to me like Lenny will be one hell of a player. Congrats to whatever team grabbed that future Hall of Famer.
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 1:37 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:44 am to JayJay2
it's not a troll. it's a very sarcastic (and reading it now somewhat condesceding, which wasnt my original intent) and simple list of questions that I would like all the posters happy with this pick to answer if they truly believe kenny vaccaro will be successful and "versatile" in the nfl like he was in college. I have no doubt he will make a fine SS. but those believing he somehow has the speed to play free, and the size/strength to help stop the run and completely delusional.
If they have him back at free, a team can send their speed threats straight at him and he has no chance to keep pace. He also has a habit of jumping PA, and regularly getting caught out of position, both of which when combined with a total lack of make up speed are a recipe for a disaster.
teams can use audibles, motiion, etc to get whatever kind of matchup they want on KV. matched up with a TE? he's too small to jam them, and too short to defend. Big wr? same thing, back shoulder passes all day. deep threat at WR? good luck. backs? g luck waiting on him to shed nfl fb's, much less pulling guards. there are numerous nfl offenses that have 4, 5, or more offesive players that OC's can use to their advantage against KV.
So how in the frick does that make him "versatile" at the NFL level?
If they have him back at free, a team can send their speed threats straight at him and he has no chance to keep pace. He also has a habit of jumping PA, and regularly getting caught out of position, both of which when combined with a total lack of make up speed are a recipe for a disaster.
teams can use audibles, motiion, etc to get whatever kind of matchup they want on KV. matched up with a TE? he's too small to jam them, and too short to defend. Big wr? same thing, back shoulder passes all day. deep threat at WR? good luck. backs? g luck waiting on him to shed nfl fb's, much less pulling guards. there are numerous nfl offenses that have 4, 5, or more offesive players that OC's can use to their advantage against KV.
So how in the frick does that make him "versatile" at the NFL level?
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 9:02 pm
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:56 am to el duderino III
a simple thought on that, maybe other people
will will be in different positions to help him?
will will be in different positions to help him?
Posted on 4/27/13 at 1:59 am to el duderino III
Let's pretend Lenny Vagarro had to cover one of the most explosive, most dynamic playmakers in all of CFB, named Levon Boston.
Now imagine Levon can run the forty in 4.38 seconds and will probably be drafted as high as 8th in the first round. Pretend this guy has accounted for 39 TDs in a multitude of ways.
Now that might seem like a pretty tall order for 4.63 speed Lenny to contain a future elite pro prospect like the 4.38 electric Levon.
But pretend that Lenny was up to the task, and shut Levon down. Pretend Lenny blanketed Levon in man coverage and only allowed one 8 yard gain when they were head to head. Pretend that Lenny's blanketing directly impacted Levon's QB holding into the ball too long waiting for Levon to get open and it directly resulted in two sack-fumbles and at least two punts.
Imagine all that happened. Then imagine asking knowledgeable football fans on a message board used to trolling if they have serious concerns about his cover skills translating to NFL receivers "significantly faster" than Lenny.
.
Now imagine Levon can run the forty in 4.38 seconds and will probably be drafted as high as 8th in the first round. Pretend this guy has accounted for 39 TDs in a multitude of ways.
Now that might seem like a pretty tall order for 4.63 speed Lenny to contain a future elite pro prospect like the 4.38 electric Levon.
But pretend that Lenny was up to the task, and shut Levon down. Pretend Lenny blanketed Levon in man coverage and only allowed one 8 yard gain when they were head to head. Pretend that Lenny's blanketing directly impacted Levon's QB holding into the ball too long waiting for Levon to get open and it directly resulted in two sack-fumbles and at least two punts.
Imagine all that happened. Then imagine asking knowledgeable football fans on a message board used to trolling if they have serious concerns about his cover skills translating to NFL receivers "significantly faster" than Lenny.
.
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 2:02 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 2:02 am to LSUFreek
Posted on 4/27/13 at 2:02 am to bonethug0108
thanks freek
Posted on 4/27/13 at 2:03 am to THRILLHO
quote:did you actually watch that game? obviously not.
He did a fine job on Austin, who is fast as frick.
A)his success against TA was primarily from jamming him at the line, which ever scout agrees is Ta's biggest weakness. And do you honestly think being able to jam a 5'8" 170lb guy translates to jamming an andre johnson, a julio jones, a larry firtgerald, etc? come on...
B)They way they used TA in that game was brilliant. He still racked up 100+ yards, but most of those yards, by design, came on plays where they got TA matched up with someone else. Why wouldn't you, as the rest of the UT d was garbage. When they DID know they would have TA matched up with KV, the vast majority of the time they used him as a decoy on fake speed sweeps, fake reverses, etc, for the sole intent of getting KV out of the box. if you listen to these homers, they seem to believe KV was omnipresent and batting down passes intended for TA left and right. Watch the film, as that couldnt be more wrong.
I'm definitely not saying KV did a bad job, I'm saying that because WV gameplanned around him quite effectively, it creating this myth that KV "shut down" tavon austin in that game.
Posted on 4/27/13 at 2:07 am to el duderino III
quote:He's a fricking safety. They aren't going to ask him to man up on teams best receivers. Only guys he'll be on are slot guys and he has the size to neutralize them like he did to Austin.
translates to jamming an andre johnson, a julio jones, a larry firtgerald,
Be realistic.
Edit:
And he was single man to man with Austin 15 times and effectively shut him down those snaps.
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 2:09 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 2:11 am to el duderino III
quote:
translates to jamming an andre johnson, a julio jones, a larry firtgerald, etc? come on...
May as well talk shite about how will get pushed around when lining up as a zero tech. Or how he's going to suck dick as a kicker.
quote:
I'm saying that because WV gameplanned around him quite effectively
Why did they bother gameplanning around him and using by far their best weapon as a decoy if he was such a terrible player?
Posted on 4/27/13 at 2:13 am to THRILLHO
quote:
Why did they bother gameplanning around him and using by far their best weapon as a decoy if he was such a terrible player?
Right. By saying they game planned away from Vacarro, you are saying he was good enough to change their game plan.
Sounds like a ringing endorsement to me.
This post was edited on 4/27/13 at 2:14 am
Posted on 4/27/13 at 2:29 am to el duderino III
quote:
When they DID know they would have TA matched up with KV, the vast majority of the time they used him as a decoy on fake speed sweeps, fake reverses, etc, for the sole intent of getting KV out of the box. if you listen to these homers, they seem to believe KV was omnipresent and batting down passes intended for TA left and right
I watched the game. Did you?
LINK
28:05 don't know if KV deflects the pass or just disrupts the vision enough for Tavon not to catch it, but KV is with him step for step and the ball is incomplete.
42:25 blankets Tavon in the slot for an incomplete deep pass; Texas safety almost intercepts
44:20 blankets Tavon in the end zone. Geno has to throw it away
50:05 beautiful shoot the gap tackle for loss; was lined up as an OLB. Man he looked quick when he recognized the breakdown in the backfield.
58:12 blankets Tavon in the slot; Geno sacked/fumbles; Texas recovers ball for a TD in the endzone
1:04:45 blankets Tavon; Geno sacked
1:07:45 blankets Tavon; Geno sacked
1:17:05 quick pass to Tavon in slot who slips cuz the pass was off, but KV was right on top of him, wouldn't have went anywhere
2:01:22 Fantastic diving tackle. Tavon goes in motion for a reverse; KV makes a big stop from the other side of the field for a short gain
2:12:00 blankets Tavon; Geno looking Tavon's way; Geno arm hit; fumble; Texas ball
Posted on 4/27/13 at 2:32 am to el duderino III
quote:
teams can use audibles and motion to get whatever kind of matchup they want on KV. TE? too small to jam, too short to defend. Big wr? same thing, back shoulder pass all day. Fast wr? go route. backs? he probably couldn't even shed rb's much less fb's and pulling guards. there are numerous nfl offenses that have 4, 5, or more offesive problems that OC's can use to their advantage against KV.
this is one of the dumbest things I've read
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