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Started By
Message
re: Has Reggie Been a Bust
Posted on 7/23/09 at 9:08 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 7/23/09 at 9:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
you do know that top backs get 60-80 receptions per year, right? and this isn't with specific playcalls created for them (other than screens) like the swing screen we use with reg
You see Slow, this is why you have such a bad rap on here. Its like you just make shite up, knowing that people just usually don't have the patience to deal with you when you get onto these kinds of rants and take the time to argue with you.
Top RBs get 60-80 catches per year??? Last year only TWO RBs had over 60 catches. Forte had 64 and Jones Drew had 62. Bush had 52 in ten games, putting him on pace for 83.
The year before that 3 RBs had over 60, including Reggie. Westbrook had 90, Tomlinson had 60. Reggie had 73 in 12 games, putting him on pace for 97.
In 06, Reggie's only complete season, 5 did, including Reggie, who was second in the league with 88. Two of them only had 61.
If you're going to just pretend that its commonplace for RBs to get the type of receiving numbers Reggie does, and won't acknowledge that the Saints use Reggie in a role that not many other teams have for their RBs, all this aside from his use in the return game, then there just isn't anything for us to talk about.
quote:
if we had built our team differently we might have made the playoffs the last 2 years instead of just that 1
We could have taken Reggie and still "built" our team differently. We could have used our 07 pick on D instead of Meachum. Any number of picks could have gone differently, but you choose to focus on that 1. We didn't "build" our team with 1 pick. Building is a process, and I think that was a great way to begin the "building" process. By bringing in a guy who brought instant excitement and credibility to a franchise that was desperate for that, and giving a young offensive minded head coach with a FA QB with serious injury concerns a unique weapon to help install an aggressive attacking offense. Just because we didn't use our subsequent picks as wisely as we could have doesn't mean that that wasn't the best pick at that point.
Seriously, who else would you have picked there? And don't pretend like Huff would have automatically made our D a playoff level D the past two years. Our D was littered with holes, especially in the secondary, and on top of that, the scheme was flawed to its core. One player wouldn't have changed that.
I really hope Reggie stays healthy this year, because there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if he does you will be proven wrong.
1
Posted on 7/23/09 at 9:32 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
a unique weapon
i never get this
how is bush "unique"
?
there are other backs who can do what he does, but the fact that they CAN RUN means they GET TO RUN
quote:
If you're going to just pretend that its commonplace for RBs to get the type of receiving numbers
quote:
you do know that top backs get 60-80 receptions per year, right?
top backs means "not commonplace"
quote:
Seriously, who else would you have picked there?
i would have traded down for a bunch of picks (for less than draft chart value)
quote:
And don't pretend like Huff would have automatically made our D a playoff level D the past two years.
huff isn't even that good and i wouldn't have picked him
quote:
I really hope Reggie stays healthy this year
i generally don't like to use an injury or 2 that derailed a guys career to call him a bust, but being injury prone is bust-like. and this is something i tried to tell people before we drafted him
RBs who play at 200 lbs and aren't 5-8 don't last long in the NFL and almost never carry the load
quote:
because there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if he does you will be proven wrong.
when healthy he was below 4.0 ypc last year
Posted on 7/23/09 at 9:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i never get this
how is bush "unique"
Name some other players who have the capability to break a long runs as a RB, catch 7-8 balls a game out of the backfield or as a wideout, and break a long punt return at any time. Defenses have to prepare for Bush in all 3 of those situations because if they don't, he'll destroy you. There's not many people in the league with that kind of potential to change a game. To say that he's not unique is just flat out wrong.
Posted on 7/23/09 at 9:47 am to SlowFlowPro
because 3.8 is soooooooooooo much less than 4.0.
dude, when are you going to give the reggie bush hating schtick a rest? it is so old and i can't believe people (including myself) still give your ghey arse the satisfaction of arguing your lame arse thoughts. GTFO
dude, when are you going to give the reggie bush hating schtick a rest? it is so old and i can't believe people (including myself) still give your ghey arse the satisfaction of arguing your lame arse thoughts. GTFO
Posted on 7/23/09 at 9:54 am to novowels
quote:
To say that he's not unique is just flat out wrong.
he can say what he wants. he is SFP, 100k+ posts, king of the internet dorks. Mr. right. The see all, know all, final word. Easy to critisize right out of the gate. He's been sitting behind that e curtain so long, I'm sure his fat arse couldn't run a 40 in 1.2 days. Yet he can hammer every athlete out there like he could do any better.
He's got a know all about the saints and what shoulda coulda been done, yet probably doesn't even watch/attend Saints games.
Posted on 7/23/09 at 9:55 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i never get this
how is bush "unique"
Again, if you won't acknowledge the fact that Bush is unique, and having to account for him makes things very difficult for a defensive coordinator to defend, then we just don't have anything to discuss. But I think most DCs in the NFL would very strongly disagree with you.
quote:
you do know that top backs get 60-80 receptions per year, right?
top backs means "not commonplace"
Well, then Reggie would be considered "not commonplace" because he has been at the top of NFL backs in receptions every year he's played. When healthy, he's actually on pace to average far above 80 catches per year. That would make him "unique", no?
quote:
i would have traded down for a bunch of picks (for less than draft chart value)
That was certainly a strategy. But again, what Reggie brought in off field value is immeasurable. Saints fans would have been furious if we had traded out of that spot with Bush on the board to accumulate picks in a weak draft. He was a headliner, and we needed one. It would have been very interesting IMO to see our season ticket sales #'s had we not drafted Bush.
quote:
i generally don't like to use an injury or 2 that derailed a guys career to call him a bust, but being injury prone is bust-like. and this is something i tried to tell people before we drafted him
RBs who play at 200 lbs and aren't 5-8 don't last long in the NFL and almost never carry the load
I don't disagree with you at all. But guess what, I'm guessing the Saints front office knew that too, because I sure as hell did too. Hence, my assertion that the Saints did not draft him to "carry the load" from the RB spot, but to use him as a multi-purpose weapon.
quote:
when healthy he was below 4.0 ypc last year
Again, this is just where I think you miss the point. Honestly, I don't care if Reggie NEVER averages over 4 ypc because HE IS NOT A TRADITIONAL RB. If he and Thomas both play 16 games, I expect Reggie will have over 900 yards receiving and close to 600 yards rushing, and have several big plays on punt returns. That would be a great season for him, and I predict the Saints would be a playoff team. I don't think the word bust would be used much in that scenario, no matter what his ypc is.
Posted on 7/23/09 at 9:59 am to whodatfan
quote:
he can say what he wants. he is SFP, 100k+ posts, king of the internet dorks. Mr. right. The see all, know all, final word. Easy to critisize right out of the gate. He's been sitting behind that e curtain so long, I'm sure his fat arse couldn't run a 40 in 1.2 days. Yet he can hammer every athlete out there like he could do any better.
He's got a know all about the saints and what shoulda coulda been done, yet probably doesn't even watch/attend Saints games.
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:00 am to novowels
quote:
Name some other players who have the capability to break a long runs as a RB, catch 7-8 balls a game out of the backfield or as a wideout, and break a long punt return at any time.
ok first of all, bush has sucked as a punt returner for the vast majority of his career. he had a GREAT game against one of the worst punt return coverage teams last year and he's all world at PR now?
most speed backs in the NFL could be the threat that reggie is, but they're more valuable as a RUNNING back
want examples of who could do what bush does over bush's career? MJD, LT (may be falling off now), chris johnson, westbrook, S-Jax, leon washington...hell even larry johnson was catching 40 balls while rushing 400+ times. thomas jones would get more receptions if they didn't pass to leon washinton so much (he had 56 a few years ago)
guys like willie parker could if they were in a different offense also
and how many times has bush broken a really long run?
2006: longest run was 18 yards
2007: longest run was 22 yards
2008: longest run was 43 yards
so AT THE LEAST, 2/3 of his career has lacked "long runs"
quote:
Defenses have to prepare for Bush in all 3 of those situations because if they don't, he'll destroy you.
bush has "destroyed" how many teams from the LOS? like 4-5 games in a 3 year career?
show me some consistency please
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:02 am to whodatfan
quote:
because 3.8 is soooooooooooo much less than 4.0.
when did 4.0 become a good ypc for running backs?
bush was 40th in the league in ypc last year (now some of these guys weren't full time backs, but he's in the lower-levels of starters)
quote:
when are you going to give the reggie bush hating schtick a rest?
when he proves me wrong
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:03 am to whodatfan
quote:
He's been sitting behind that e curtain so long
what curtain?
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:05 am to novowels
quote:
Name some other players who have the capability to break a long runs as a RB, catch 7-8 balls a game out of the backfield or as a wideout, and break a long punt return at any time. Defenses have to prepare for Bush in all 3 of those situations because if they don't, he'll destroy you. There's not many people in the league with that kind of potential to change a game. To say that he's not unique is just flat out wrong.
am I missing something? bush isnt a threat at rb and never has been. he has had a handful(if that) of successful games as a rusher in 3 years. check out his statistics as he gets more rushes. his ypc for rushes 11-20 is like 3.1 ypc.
bush is a threat as a receiver out of the backfield, but he is given way more chances than other rbs to do this. There are quite a few backs in the league that could put up the same or better receiving numbers than bush. difference is alot of them are threats on the ground also.
going into this year, I would say this is how things need to play out
thomas 15-20 carries 1-5 receptions
bush 5-10 carries 5-10 receptions
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:10 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
Again, if you won't acknowledge the fact that Bush is unique,
he's not unique, unless you mean he's unique in that he keeps being put in a starting role as a RB while he's shown he's not a good runner up to this point in his career. what other running back gets that kind of depth chart love?
quote:
Well, then Reggie would be considered "not commonplace"
yeah because we use him as a receiver b/c he can't run even average
quote:
But again, what Reggie brought in off field value is immeasurable. Saints fans would have been furious if we had traded out of that spot with Bush on the board to accumulate picks in a weak draft.
it was a vastly superior draft to the past 2
and winning cures all. that is what makes a franchise popular
quote:
Hence, my assertion that the Saints did not draft him to "carry the load" from the RB spot, but to use him as a multi-purpose weapon.
there are plenty of gimmick backs for this that could have been found later in that draft or other drafts
and he's the HIGHEST PAID RB IN THE NFL. they decided to make the #1 player at a position the highest paid player at that position, and they understood this when going into it. that's stupid
quote:
If he and Thomas both play 16 games, I expect Reggie will have over 900 yards receiving and close to 600 yards rushing,
even this is only 1500 yards from scrimmage
good? yes. great? no
AD had almost 1900
Turner had 1740
Forte, as a rookie, had 1700+
Slaton, as a rookie (who didn't start the whole year) had almost 1700
and we're talking 900 yards receiving, where a mediocre receiver gets twice the yards per touch. that skews the total
quote:
Well, then Reggie would be considered "not commonplace" because he has been at the top of NFL backs in receptions every year he's played.
reggie plays in a non-common system
which is why the offense doesn't slow down when he gets hurt
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:13 am to diat150
quote:
bush isnt a threat at rb and never has been. he has had a handful(if that) of successful games as a rusher in 3 years
The key word there is 'capability'. Bush hasn't been able to break many long runs in his first 3 years, but that doesn't mean the potential isn't there. It only takes one big play to change the course of a game.
quote:
thomas 15-20 carries 1-5 receptions
bush 5-10 carries 5-10 receptions
I agree with this, but I'd put Bush's carries on the upper end of that spectrum at roughly 10 per game.
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:15 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
quote:
If he and Thomas both play 16 games, I expect Reggie will have over 900 yards receiving and close to 600 yards rushing,
even this is only 1500 yards from scrimmage
good? yes. great? no
AD had almost 1900
Turner had 1740
Forte, as a rookie, had 1700+
Slaton, as a rookie (who didn't start the whole year) had almost 1700
and we're talking 900 yards receiving, where a mediocre receiver gets twice the yards per touch. that skews the total
You forgot to add in the return yardage
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:19 am to SlowFlowPro
Hey dumbass, no back will get those yards in Paytons system. You fricking know that. To compare petterson, turner, and all those other guys is ridiculous. We are a passing offense first. GTFOOH with that shite.
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:21 am to novowels
quote:
It only takes one big play to change the course of a game.
this works both ways
how many fumbles has bush had that "changed the course of a game"
how many failed conversions has bush had that "changed the course of a game"
that's the thing that hasn't really been touched. it isn't just the fact that he gets hurt a lot and can't run even average. bush has a history of fricking up too. if he truly was the player that his "capability" might produce, i think we all could live with the fumbles. but he's not that player
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:21 am to novowels
quote:
You forgot to add in the return yardage
why would i do that?
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:22 am to whodatfan
quote:
Hey dumbass, no back will get those yards in Paytons system.
you put LT, Westbrook, Forte, Chris Johnson, etc on this team and they will get 2,000+ combined yards/year
quote:
We are a passing offense first.
yeah deuce didn't rush for 1,000 yards in 2006 while splitting carries or anything
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
you put LT, Westbrook, Forte, Chris Johnson, etc on this team and they will get 2,000+ combined yards/year
negative. would never happen no matter the back.
quote:
yeah deuce didn't rush for 1,000 yards in 2006 while splitting carries or anything
is there a point here? that's 1000+, not 1800. you lose. try again. I know dueces were rushing not much recieving, but with a two back system and a pass first offense, its hard to get those numbers.
This post was edited on 7/23/09 at 10:38 am
Posted on 7/23/09 at 10:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You forgot to add in the return yardage
why would i do that?
Because those are yards he earned. You can list the return yardage for AP, Forte, Thomas Jones and LT if you'd like too.
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