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Message
re: The importance of losing
Posted on 2/5/13 at 9:21 am to Jester
Posted on 2/5/13 at 9:21 am to Jester
quote:
I was obviously opposed to "tanking" last year, but I agree with the gist of what you're saying. I took most of the losses last year in stride because of the draft (even though I think luck and/or Stern had more to do with getting The Brow). Like you said, the draft just isn't that good this year. You may very well end up wasting cap space on a lottery pick. For the sake of forward momentum, I want to see wins. I want to see our guys learn how to close out games. I want to see Davis learn to play with foul trouble. I want to see Gordon, Vasquez, and Anderson start to consistently show killer instinct. I want Rivers to continue improving his drive and kick game (his shot needs a LOT of offseason work). I want to see the guys having fun playing together. I want them building chemistry for the future. I do not want to see losses. All that said, I still fully expect to end up in the 6-10 range if we hold onto the pick.
yep...i think the most important thing for this season is Anthony Davis development.
...get him as many minutes as possible so that he's as close as possible to being ready to be a star for next season.
like corndeaux said, all the championship teams drafted a franchise, top 50 player. we think we have that guy. we need to make that growth happen as quick as possible, imo.
1
Posted on 2/5/13 at 9:25 am to VOR
quote:
Good article. And I agree with those posters who focus on the need to develop. It's important to strive for success this year and let the five or six guys that we know are here for awhile mature and learn to win together, imo. Look, if the wheels come off and the record is sit, then, sure, a high draft pick is nice to have as consolation. But it no longer should be the primary goal of this team. We pretty much hit our home run last year. San Antonio added two elite players (certainly elite in how the contribute to their team) by drafting wisely with relatively shitty draft slots. And they have been exceptional in bringing in just the right kind of free agent talent to the franchise.
agree that we need to add the right pieces, and not necessarily a lottery pick.
the spurs situation with parker/ginobili was incredibly lucky and probably not happening again. Great job by the spurs, but the chances that we could do anything similar to that with shitty draft spots are slim.
...i think we have some good pieces in place though, and we can add a couple more hopefully with our first round pick and free agency.
the most important thing is the growth of the guys we have, especially Davis.
i was for tanking last year...not so much this year. it makes less sense given the circumstances (well said, tigerinATL).
Posted on 2/5/13 at 10:57 am to drake20
quote:
agree that we need to add the right pieces, and not necessarily a lottery pick
Exactly, especially in this years draft which doesn't have a player like Davis last year worth tanking for.
Wins and losses don't mean much this year, but that doesn't mean we should tank. We need to develop our young players, and tanking does nothing for that. If developing young players is our goal, we will win some games because of that and we will lose some games because of that.
But intentionally losing games is not the same as saying wins and losses aren't important
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:14 pm to drake20
I don't understand how all of you are slagging off this entire draft class when Shabazz is rated as highly as MKG was at this time last season, and remains a very realistic possibility to fall to us.
How does VOR have any credibility on this - he admitted that he has never even SEEN Shabazz play, yet he has opined on what a bust he will be more than a handful of times.
That is just ignorant. It's as ignorant as rooting for meaningless wins when losses so obviously help us land a starting SF in Muhammad or Porter.
How does VOR have any credibility on this - he admitted that he has never even SEEN Shabazz play, yet he has opined on what a bust he will be more than a handful of times.
That is just ignorant. It's as ignorant as rooting for meaningless wins when losses so obviously help us land a starting SF in Muhammad or Porter.
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:17 pm to WiskyMike
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:17 pm to Cap Crunch
quote:
Exactly, especially in this years draft which doesn't have a player like Davis last year worth tanking for.
MKG wasn't worth losing an extra 10 games for? The Blazers would have rather been swept by the Thunder in 1st round than land Lillard?
GTFO - all of you are mental.
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:19 pm to WiskyMike
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:20 pm to WiskyMike
quote:
I don't understand how all of you are slagging off this entire draft class when Shabazz is rated as highly as MKG was at this time last season, and remains a very realistic possibility to fall to us. How does VOR have any credibility on this - he admitted that he has never even SEEN Shabazz play, yet he has opined on what a bust he will be more than a handful of times. That is just ignorant. It's as ignorant as rooting for meaningless wins when losses so obviously help us land a starting SF in Muhammad or Porter.
i don't know where Porter will go...i think shabazz is gonna go top 3 though, and we don't have a great chance of getting one of those picks.
...most important thing is Anthony Davis development
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 12:21 pm
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:22 pm to drake20
quote:
most important thing is Anthony Davis development
I love french onion soup. guess what - neither that nor ad23s development has anything to do with this.
quote:
i don't know where Porter will go...i think shabazz is gonna go top 3 though, and we don't have a great chance of getting one of those picks.
Most mocks have him 3-4-5. Plus we could more easily trade up to nab him from the 5 slot instead of the 11 slot.
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:28 pm to WiskyMike
quote:
I love french onion soup. guess what - neither that nor ad23s development has anything to do with this.
false...how much Davis develops will have a significant effect on wins and losses
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:30 pm to drake20
Ad23 is developing fine regardless of whether we're on a 5-2 streak or we've lost 6 in a row. He'll be an all star by 2014/15 regardless.
His development has nothing to do with whether we finish with 5th slot or 9th slot.
His development has nothing to do with whether we finish with 5th slot or 9th slot.
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:30 pm to WiskyMike
quote:
The Blazers would have rather been swept by the Thunder in 1st round than land Lillard?
Making the playoffs is significant, especially from the Trailblazers' business perspective.
...It was a chance at Lillard...just like there was a chance that Lillard could bust or not be nearly as good as he has been.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:32 pm to drake20
A chance at the best (or 2nd best in Porter) SF in the draft who will be a low cost starter for the next 4 years is easily worth losing an extra 7 meaningless games for.
WTF do you all have such a hardon to go 31-51 instead of 24-58. What the frick does it matter?
WTF do you all have such a hardon to go 31-51 instead of 24-58. What the frick does it matter?
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:39 pm to WiskyMike
quote:
I love french onion soup. guess what - neither that nor ad23s development has anything to do with this.
Uhh yeah it does. Intentionally losing does not in anyway help develop players
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:41 pm to WiskyMike
quote:
It's as ignorant as rooting for meaningless wins when losses so obviously help us land a starting SF in Muhammad or Porter.
No one is suggesting Demps plug all the roster holes and send Rivers to the bench and try and win as many games as possible. The Hornets are still going to have a lottery pick, but tanking is aiming at a moving target. Just look at last year when people were freaking out about wins near the end. Beating Charlotte for the worst record would have ended up being a bad thing.
I'd rather focus on developing the players we do have and let where we fall in the draft take care of itself. Wins may be meaningless in the NBA2K Team Management sense of things, but they aren't meaningless to the players. Wins are needed for guys to buy in to Monty's system and have an established program/culture for new players to be plugged into. Wins are needed for guys to establish their role on the team. Wins are needed to encourage all the young players to keep improving their games. Wins are needed so guys like Vasquez and Lopez can keep raising their trade value. Wins are needed so Demps/Monty can feel confident in the decisions they have already made. Wins are needed to make it easier to sell the team to FAs in the off season.
I was on board the tank last year (aiming at a bottom 5 finish though, not worst place), so I don't think any less of your fanhood for wanting a higher pick, but I do think you are really over estimating the impact of a few draft slots and under estimating the impact of winning on all the other ways Demps can improve the team besides drafting 5th vs 8-10.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:42 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Wins may be meaningless in the NBA2K Team Management sense of things, but they aren't meaningless to the players
Or fans for that matter
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:52 pm to Cap Crunch
quote:
Or fans for that matter
This team is really only going to be financially secure if it wins more than it loses, so pleasing fans in a losing season at the expense of improving long term is a mistake. I'm anti-tank this year because it improves your current assets and Free Agent prospects more than losing improves who you get in the draft. Fans really shouldn't be part of the equation this year.
This post was edited on 2/5/13 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 2/5/13 at 12:56 pm to WiskyMike
quote:
WTF do you all have such a hardon to go 31-51 instead of 24-58. What the frick does it matter?
I don't. I was very pro-tank last season. However, this draft is not the same as last year's draft, and there is no sure thing like Anthony Davis.
The difference between 31 and 24 wins is gonna change a couple of percentage points. It doesn't matter either way. We're one of the most talented teams of the bottom feeders, imo, and i don't think we will get one of the top 3 slots. It's a crapshoot past that.
You have to play the games. Tom Benson is making money based on the product on the court.
Should we bench all of our starters for the rest of the season? bench Davis? play him, but tell him not to play hard?
I'm in favor of playing guys like Rivers and Miller heavy minutes at the cost of some wins (and maybe a higher draft slot).
Also, as stated above, former championship teams drafted their superstar in the top ten and built around him through free agency and non-lottery picks in the draft.
...Shabazz, Gordon, Anderson, Davis...that's a lot of scoring power, limited shots to go around, many egos.
Posted on 2/5/13 at 1:02 pm to WiskyMike
quote:
Porter will be a low cost starter for the next 4 years
possibly...you don't know this.
quote:
is easily worth losing an extra 7 meaningless games for.
if we could be guaranteed a cheap starter, that would be great...what if we in the 7 games, drop 2 spots in the draft, miss out on porter, and luck into the best player in the draft.
again, there isn't obnoxiously blatant tanking in the NBA...we should just rip off a 34 game losing streak?
Posted on 2/5/13 at 1:06 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
The Hornets are still going to have a lottery pick, but tanking is aiming at a moving target. Just look at last year when people were freaking out about wins near the end. Beating Charlotte for the worst record would have ended up being a bad thing.
exactly...i was for tanking last year, but it was a different team and a different draft.
quote:
I'd rather focus on developing the players we do have and let where we fall in the draft take care of itself. Wins may be meaningless in the NBA2K Team Management sense of things, but they aren't meaningless to the players. Wins are needed for guys to buy in to Monty's system and have an established program/culture for new players to be plugged into. Wins are needed for guys to establish their role on the team. Wins are needed to encourage all the young players to keep improving their games. Wins are needed so guys like Vasquez and Lopez can keep raising their trade value. Wins are needed so Demps/Monty can feel confident in the decisions they have already made. Wins are needed to make it easier to sell the team to FAs in the off season.
this continues to make a lot of sense...Wins also impact the success of the business.
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