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Message
Pels attempted to trade for CP3 last season
Posted on 7/31/21 at 7:23 am
Posted on 7/31/21 at 7:23 am
quote:LINK
The Pelicans even attempted to acquire Paul in a trade prior to last season, sources said. Head coach Willie Green was just hired away from the Suns, and Green is known to hold a close relationship with Paul. The All-Star actually lobbied Houston management to bring Green on board as an assistant during Paul's tenure with the Rockets, sources told B/R.
I guess Adams was a fallback, no way they could have afforded both.
There's alot of Pels nuggets in the article, pretty much linking us to every free agent.
quote:
While TJ McConnell and Doug McDermott are expected to have interest in re-signing with the Pacers, the Pelicans, Nuggets and Suns are said to be pursuing the marksman from Creighton.
This post was edited on 7/31/21 at 7:30 am
6
Posted on 7/31/21 at 7:42 am to Soggymoss
I just don’t know how replacing Lonzo with Lowry is ultimately the better move over the next three years?
Which is what Fischer makes it sound like we are doing.
Since he seems to think money is going to be the deciding factor, which means we probably have to pay him 3 for 90 and it’s not gonna leave us with much room to compliment the rest of the roster and makes the Lowe and KOC rumors around our suppose Brogdon discussions seem unattainable.
Which is what Fischer makes it sound like we are doing.
Since he seems to think money is going to be the deciding factor, which means we probably have to pay him 3 for 90 and it’s not gonna leave us with much room to compliment the rest of the roster and makes the Lowe and KOC rumors around our suppose Brogdon discussions seem unattainable.
Posted on 7/31/21 at 7:52 am to Soggymoss
Also a snippet I found interesting is Talen Horton Tucker.
Only because Kevin O’Conner(or maybe Lowe) mentioned the other day that they were shocked at some of the guys that teams are considering throwing a shockingly big contract at, naming Horton Tucker specifically as a guy with a rumored 20ish million offer from some team potentially out there, and the Knicks now being named as an interested party makes me think that’s the connection.
Also not mentioned is that we may have been showing interest in Bryn Forbes, Zach Collins, and Jamychal Green. Which I like. Shows we are being smart about how we look to add spacing. Said in another thread the smart teams in recent memory are the ones that look to bring in those 80th percentile shooters that will come much cheaper than the 95th percentile guys like Duncan Robinson that will get massively paid.
Only because Kevin O’Conner(or maybe Lowe) mentioned the other day that they were shocked at some of the guys that teams are considering throwing a shockingly big contract at, naming Horton Tucker specifically as a guy with a rumored 20ish million offer from some team potentially out there, and the Knicks now being named as an interested party makes me think that’s the connection.
Also not mentioned is that we may have been showing interest in Bryn Forbes, Zach Collins, and Jamychal Green. Which I like. Shows we are being smart about how we look to add spacing. Said in another thread the smart teams in recent memory are the ones that look to bring in those 80th percentile shooters that will come much cheaper than the 95th percentile guys like Duncan Robinson that will get massively paid.
This post was edited on 7/31/21 at 7:57 am
Posted on 7/31/21 at 7:56 am to Soggymoss
Well, lots of posters here had wondered why we didn't trade for Paul last season, and now we know that we tried.
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:04 am to Bronc
quote:
I just don’t know how replacing Lonzo with Lowry is ultimately the better move over the next three years
If you dont see how Lowry would have this team take the next step, and believe Lonzo could be the one to do it, well, I don't know what to tell you.
Lonzo, Zion and Ingram are all just, quiet. You'll never have a competitive team that's a quiet team. Zion has leadership in him, he just needs to learn how to get it out.
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:08 am to Soggymoss
Team lacks Alpha attitude
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:10 am to Soggymoss
quote:
If you dont see how Lowry would have this team take the next step, and believe Lonzo could be the one to do it, well, I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, there's a huge chance that Lonzo would be a much better player for a lot less money in year three. But Lowry makes us a contender this season, and that's what changes the free agent market in years after that, and it's what guarantees that Zion stays and we have a chance in year three.
This team still requires vocal, veteran leadership. Valanciunas is a veteran, but he isn't vocal. Of all the names that we are reasonably considering, only Lowry can deliver the vocal leadership we need to take this team to the contender level.
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:11 am to Soggymoss
Per MM, the Heat have only discussed 2 year deals with Lowry.
Makes sense why we’re so confident, if we’re offering 3 years.
I think tomorrow may clear up a bit of the Miami situation, as Dragic’s option is due then.
Really like that we’re linked to good shooters: McDermott, Green, Collins, Forbes
Makes sense why we’re so confident, if we’re offering 3 years.
I think tomorrow may clear up a bit of the Miami situation, as Dragic’s option is due then.
Really like that we’re linked to good shooters: McDermott, Green, Collins, Forbes
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:17 am to Soggymoss
quote:
If you dont see how Lowry would have this team take the next step, and believe Lonzo could be the one to do it, well, I don't know what to tell you.
I didn’t say Lonzo is the one to do anything, I said I’m not sure if our FA largely amounts to swapping out Lonzo for Lowry, due to the high price, that it is going to be the better path forward over the next three years, or the life of that contract. If we can add some other meaningful pieces my opinion would obviously change. But the Lowry path is looking incredibly restrictive as more details on what it is going to cost New Orleans emerges.
I like Lowry, but the idea we may be having to renounce Lonzo and let him basically walk so we can get north of 30 million a year to overpay Lowry to come here is a gamble to say the least. Putting all our eggs in a 35 year old player who’s body has taken more charges than anyone in the league.
And can you really confidentially say in three seasons that a 38 year old Lowry is going to have this team in a better position than matching a 20-22 million dollar offer for Lonzo and rounding out the roster with savvy vet floor raisers like Jamychal Green or something?
This post was edited on 7/31/21 at 8:21 am
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:19 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Per MM, the Heat have only discussed 2 year deals with Lowry.
Amazing how MM now has insiders in the Heat front office as well.
…Y’all really need to stop boosting that attention-seeking clown
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:25 am to Soggymoss
quote:
You'll never have a competitive team that's a quiet team.
There are exceptions to that rule.
I agree that we need an alpha leader. My question is, Is Lowry really an alpha leader? I don’t see that CP3/Jimmy Butler/Dame type quality from him.
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:36 am to Suntiger
Milwaukee just won the championship as well.
Led by Kris Middleton, Jrue Holiday, and Giannis, three of the most soft spoken and nice guys in the league.
As for Lowry. He is widely considered by pretty much everyone as a strong culture setter and leader. So I do think he would change the dynamic of the team, assuming he can still play and lead on the court at a high level. I just question at what cost, and for how long?
Basketball Leadership skills + still a high level player on the court is the secret ingredient required when GM’s talk about vets helping young teams develop and build a culture imo. It has to be vets that not only are actual basketball related leaders(Adams, Favors, and Redick never were and people were fooling themselves in that regard, they might have clout in other ways, but not in leading basketball culture building), but can command respect on the court from your best young players.
It works when you have guys like CP3 on the Suns, Paul Pierce on the Wizards, Lebron in Cleveland, Rondo here, guys that command your respect on and off the court. Lowry is one of those guys, it’s just is the ROI worth the huge price and huge risk?
Led by Kris Middleton, Jrue Holiday, and Giannis, three of the most soft spoken and nice guys in the league.
As for Lowry. He is widely considered by pretty much everyone as a strong culture setter and leader. So I do think he would change the dynamic of the team, assuming he can still play and lead on the court at a high level. I just question at what cost, and for how long?
Basketball Leadership skills + still a high level player on the court is the secret ingredient required when GM’s talk about vets helping young teams develop and build a culture imo. It has to be vets that not only are actual basketball related leaders(Adams, Favors, and Redick never were and people were fooling themselves in that regard, they might have clout in other ways, but not in leading basketball culture building), but can command respect on the court from your best young players.
It works when you have guys like CP3 on the Suns, Paul Pierce on the Wizards, Lebron in Cleveland, Rondo here, guys that command your respect on and off the court. Lowry is one of those guys, it’s just is the ROI worth the huge price and huge risk?
This post was edited on 7/31/21 at 8:39 am
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:44 am to Bronc
quote:
I said I’m not sure if our FA largely amounts to swapping out Lonzo for Lowry, due to the high price, that it is going to be the better path forward over the next three years
As GOP said above, this move is about attracting other free agents and being competitive NOW to keep Zion and BI happy.
quote:
But the Lowry path is looking incredibly restrictive as more details on what it is going to cost New Orleans emerges.
It absolutely would not. We could do a 3/90 with declining salary and the 3rd year be 26 million or so. We have plenty of flexibility this offseason, that decreases with a Lonzo deal though, which would still leave you needing to go get a vet, like Lowry.
quote:
And can you really confidentially say in three seasons that a 38 year old Lowry is going to have this team in a better position than matching a 20-22 million dollar offer for Lonzo and rounding out the roster with savvy vet floor raisers like Jamychal Green or something?
Yes. And getting Lowry does not stop those types of moves this year. We could get Lowry, resign Hart, and still have plenty under the tax to round out the roster, depending on Hart's deal. If they go as I stated above and have declining salaries on Lowry, 34,30,26 per, our cap sheet would be at roughly 122 million (assuming 10 million to Hart), with a roster of:
Lowry/Kira
NAW/Hart/Didi/Jones
Ingram/Murphy/Naji/Iwundu
Zion/Wenyen
Val/Hayes
That's 14 rostered players, with still 21 million under the tax line, plenty of flexibility.
This post was edited on 7/31/21 at 8:45 am
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:44 am to Soggymoss
Ingram, Zion > Booker, Ayton...come home CP3.
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:51 am to imAMAZING
quote:
Ingram, Zion > Booker, Ayton....
No. Just no.
Posted on 7/31/21 at 8:58 am to Soggymoss
quote:
As GOP said above, this move is about attracting other free agents and being competitive NOW to keep Zion and BI happy.
If Lowry ends up washed in a year you can throw that relative competitiveness out the window.
Even in your best case scenario you are conceding how much of that success will be dependent on Lowry maintaining near all star level play into his late thirties. There is no denying the risk of putting so much of your non-Zion/Ingram eggs into one basket.
Because unlike Lonzo, if Father Time catches Lowry this season, that’s not a positive contract you can just move on from the way Lonzo has become coveted and allows maximum flexibility while retaining his enormous upside(Lonzo is younger than Chris Duarte, and only months older than Davian Mitchell).
Zion also really likes Lonzo, Lowe and others have been very detailed on how well they get along and how much Zion wants to keep him around.
If there was a way we could actually pull off the rumored Lonzo sign and trade for Brogdon + Lowry, or something similar, I’d be more open, but gun to my head do I think in two seasons we are better with Lowry at 30 million and little flexibility, or Lonzo with two more years of development and much more flexibility? I think the latter.
Paying this rumored a high of price, including all the opportunity costs associated, feels like hot seat short term move, not the move a smart organization with championship aspirations would gamble on.
This post was edited on 7/31/21 at 9:00 am
Posted on 7/31/21 at 9:03 am to Bronc
quote:
Even in your best case scenario you are conceding how much of that success will be dependent on Lowry maintaining near all star level play into his late thirties. There is no denying the risk of putting so much of your non-Zion/Ingram eggs into one basket.
The best thing about this is that we don't need him to maintain all star level play. All we need out of Lowry would be to be that steady vet that takes over in crunch time and runs the team. Depending on how the rest of free agency works out, or even the progression of NAW, he could be our 4th best player and we still be in the playoffs.
None of that can happen with Lonzo, he's just not that guy.
Everyone thought John Wall's contract would never be able to be moved, yet here we are
This post was edited on 7/31/21 at 9:06 am
Posted on 7/31/21 at 9:07 am to Honest Man
quote:
You sound jelaous man
Nah, I’m tired of the fake news spreading around this forum, and MM is one of the biggest originators of it because there are four or five posters that continually regurgitate his nonsense. Was getting just as frustrated with the influx of Landon Buford nonsense the other week. The fake news spreading around here is becoming like a disease.
Posted on 7/31/21 at 9:15 am to Soggymoss
quote:
None of that can happen with Lonzo, he's just not that guy.
Not sure I follow here? This team was literally on pace to make the play in until NAW, Hart, and Lonzo got injuries.
If you read my post history I’m not even the biggest Lonzo fan, and am ok moving on from him in the right way(sign and trade for the right players, retaining the asset and striking when hot)
Naw can still develop with Lonzo here. He’s been doing it so far. Same with everyone else.
If Lowry drops to our fourth best player though, and we let Lonzo walk to do it, this is an outright terrible path to go down.
We can easily be in the playoffs running it back with a full offseason, continued development, better coaching, and smart moves on the margins like a Jamychal Green, Bryn Forbes, and/or Patty Mills. Then have Lonzo in our pocket as part of a bigger deal when the moment is right. Still making the playoffs if Lowry gets close to washed because guys like NAW might be able to pick up the slack is not a huge vote of confidence in the long term viability of the overpay Lowry path for me.
Now if maybe Griff has some other magic tricks, maybe it’s fine. But this Fischer framing comes off like it’s going to take a lot of trade offs to pull this off.
This post was edited on 7/31/21 at 9:19 am
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