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Message
re: If we re-sign Boogie and Rondo...
Posted on 5/12/18 at 8:52 am to corndeaux
Posted on 5/12/18 at 8:52 am to corndeaux
I think we know one thing for certain, Niko >>>>>>>>>>>> Dante and if Cousins is still at least quasi All Star level on offense, Mirotic goes from an inconsistent starter to a bench force that puts you over the top regularly.
I thought before the season last year that the 2 bench units built around staggering AD/DC would have been better than the AD/DC units. That isn't what happened but I wonder how much Niko potentially changes that since he's so good and active on defense.
Just think of what the 2nd unit could look like to start next year compared to what they started with this season
Jrue
Moore
Miller
Niko
Cousins
vs
Nelson
Allen
Miller
Dante
Cousins
I thought before the season last year that the 2 bench units built around staggering AD/DC would have been better than the AD/DC units. That isn't what happened but I wonder how much Niko potentially changes that since he's so good and active on defense.
Just think of what the 2nd unit could look like to start next year compared to what they started with this season
Jrue
Moore
Miller
Niko
Cousins
vs
Nelson
Allen
Miller
Dante
Cousins
3
Posted on 5/12/18 at 9:08 am to TigerinATL
I really hope that Niko can stay here long term if he’s not used as a trade chip for a star level player
Posted on 5/12/18 at 12:44 pm to TigerinATL
Check out this highlight reel when we played Golden State at the beginning of the year. Its a completely different time of the year and both teams were quite different. We didn't have Rondo at the time, so he wasn't setting the table, Jrue was bad Jrue, Mirotic was still in Chicago, and yes that's Jordan Crawford getting minutes in the flow of the game.
GSW @ NOP 10/20/2017
But I wanted to highlight Boogie and why he's still our best shot option. First, you can see that with Boogie on the floor, Kerr had to put Zaza and McGee in the game giving the Pelicans a major advantage. Second, when Boogie has the basketball, he has multiple eyes on him so others can come help. Perfect example is @2:24 in the video, the entire defense flows to Boogie when he makes a move to the basket. He dishes out to Miller who pumps, drives, and hands it off to Boogie again for an easy 2 points (another example @4:55). Third, #2 works because he is another effective scorer & facilitator on the floor whether he pulls up for a shot or drives (which I think he'll still be able to do, just not as much). Fourth, Boogie on the perimeter spaces the floor beautifully and pulls out another big guy. I think this allows AD to be much much more effective (we just need him to be the aggressor that he was when Boogie went down). It also allows smaller guys a better chance of rebounds. Fifth, Boogie is a fantastic passer and just like Rondo, rewards guys that get free on their man (Dante @2:46). Sixth, and Boogie is a force the paint. We won't get bullied.
The achilles injury sucks but what do we lose if his mobility is hindered? Well we cannot play with pace because he cannot get up and down the floor as quickly. Boogie becomes a target of the opponent's pick and roll. And we lose Boogie's ability to drive as effectively to the basket. To be honest, the part of Boogie's game I hated the most was him driving to the basket uncontrollably and forcing up shots. That's where a ton of his turnovers came from. I think now, he'll still be able to drive just not as well, which will still force defenses to keep an eye on him but limits the uncontrollable rumbles to the basket.
So really 2 negatives that imo dont even come close to outweighing the positives
GSW @ NOP 10/20/2017
But I wanted to highlight Boogie and why he's still our best shot option. First, you can see that with Boogie on the floor, Kerr had to put Zaza and McGee in the game giving the Pelicans a major advantage. Second, when Boogie has the basketball, he has multiple eyes on him so others can come help. Perfect example is @2:24 in the video, the entire defense flows to Boogie when he makes a move to the basket. He dishes out to Miller who pumps, drives, and hands it off to Boogie again for an easy 2 points (another example @4:55). Third, #2 works because he is another effective scorer & facilitator on the floor whether he pulls up for a shot or drives (which I think he'll still be able to do, just not as much). Fourth, Boogie on the perimeter spaces the floor beautifully and pulls out another big guy. I think this allows AD to be much much more effective (we just need him to be the aggressor that he was when Boogie went down). It also allows smaller guys a better chance of rebounds. Fifth, Boogie is a fantastic passer and just like Rondo, rewards guys that get free on their man (Dante @2:46). Sixth, and Boogie is a force the paint. We won't get bullied.
The achilles injury sucks but what do we lose if his mobility is hindered? Well we cannot play with pace because he cannot get up and down the floor as quickly. Boogie becomes a target of the opponent's pick and roll. And we lose Boogie's ability to drive as effectively to the basket. To be honest, the part of Boogie's game I hated the most was him driving to the basket uncontrollably and forcing up shots. That's where a ton of his turnovers came from. I think now, he'll still be able to drive just not as well, which will still force defenses to keep an eye on him but limits the uncontrollable rumbles to the basket.
So really 2 negatives that imo dont even come close to outweighing the positives
This post was edited on 5/12/18 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 5/12/18 at 5:35 pm to TigerinATL
Mirotic next to either Cousins or Davis is a great option. even if he doesn't get the flashy nights like he had v PDX, his value is less in his counting stats than in his presence. being erased wasnt a diss on his ability. even if he's erased on offense in terms of numbers, he's still providing value as a spacer and a smart, professional defender
Pels were different. so were the Warriors. GS clearly didn't give much of a frick during the regular season and are turning it up now. doesnt mean a decent return for Cousins wouldnt present legit problems, but it's not as easy as in October the Pels gave them some problems and the Pels werent at full strength, ergo Pels would be unstoppable
i agree with just about everything you say re: Cousins on the floor. what you're saying is different than what some others have put forward; that they should put Cousins in the post to dominate down low. using him primarily in that way would be completely different than what they did (that worked pretty well) and would also turn Davis into more of a jump shooter, which should be avoided as much as possible
yes. he definitely tried to do too much at times.
but this is tricky. according to NBA.com, he was more likely to turn it over on a post up than a drive. he just drove more frequently. and if he isn't on the perimeter as much, then you're losing the benefits you pointed out. a Cousins that can't put pressure on teams from the perimeter can still be effective, but how is he used that differently on the court than a more talented version of Monroe or Kanter? (and how much do you want to pay for that?)
plus, if he loses some of his agility/quickness, that will also effect his post up game too.
quote:
deion
Pels were different. so were the Warriors. GS clearly didn't give much of a frick during the regular season and are turning it up now. doesnt mean a decent return for Cousins wouldnt present legit problems, but it's not as easy as in October the Pels gave them some problems and the Pels werent at full strength, ergo Pels would be unstoppable
i agree with just about everything you say re: Cousins on the floor. what you're saying is different than what some others have put forward; that they should put Cousins in the post to dominate down low. using him primarily in that way would be completely different than what they did (that worked pretty well) and would also turn Davis into more of a jump shooter, which should be avoided as much as possible
quote:
hated the most was him driving to the basket uncontrollably and forcing up shots. That's where a ton of his turnovers came from.
yes. he definitely tried to do too much at times.
but this is tricky. according to NBA.com, he was more likely to turn it over on a post up than a drive. he just drove more frequently. and if he isn't on the perimeter as much, then you're losing the benefits you pointed out. a Cousins that can't put pressure on teams from the perimeter can still be effective, but how is he used that differently on the court than a more talented version of Monroe or Kanter? (and how much do you want to pay for that?)
plus, if he loses some of his agility/quickness, that will also effect his post up game too.
Posted on 5/12/18 at 6:32 pm to corndeaux
There’s only 3 players I can see helping the Pelicans beat GSW at being GSW and even then you’d need luck with injuries (not having any + possibly needing an injury on their end). George, Leonard, and Lebron (forget needing one on their end if this miracle happened). Basically the 3 best 3s in the league. The odds of landing any of those 3 are so magnificently slim. Therefore, you are going to have to hope that Cousins can help you beat GSW by playing a different brand of ball altogether.
Honestly, I don’t think anyone will beat this version of GSW at full health, so the best offseason we can hope for is a returning Cousins/Rondo, keeping AD happy, an upgrade at the 3 without losing Niko, and Lebron going West (as crazy as it sounds) to force the league into going 1-16 and potentially shaking up the seeding to avoid GSW until the semis or finals.
I’ve been getting skewered though lately for not buying in to the Pelicans being a player for the 3 mentioned SFs above and trying to have reasonable expectations for our offseason.
ETA: corn - The pels showed a surprising adaptability in the postseason from a coaching perspective. I’d have more faith for them to find a way to work with Cousins than what we saw in the regular season when you’re putting together a “one size fits all” offense/defense for every opponent in the league.
Honestly, I don’t think anyone will beat this version of GSW at full health, so the best offseason we can hope for is a returning Cousins/Rondo, keeping AD happy, an upgrade at the 3 without losing Niko, and Lebron going West (as crazy as it sounds) to force the league into going 1-16 and potentially shaking up the seeding to avoid GSW until the semis or finals.
I’ve been getting skewered though lately for not buying in to the Pelicans being a player for the 3 mentioned SFs above and trying to have reasonable expectations for our offseason.
ETA: corn - The pels showed a surprising adaptability in the postseason from a coaching perspective. I’d have more faith for them to find a way to work with Cousins than what we saw in the regular season when you’re putting together a “one size fits all” offense/defense for every opponent in the league.
This post was edited on 5/12/18 at 6:36 pm
Posted on 5/12/18 at 8:14 pm to ShamelessPel
The Pels have up and coming Boy Genius types at both OC and DC. That’s why I defended Gentry all year. This is a good staff and Gentry ain’t too proud to delegate.
Posted on 5/13/18 at 1:10 am to Broski
Yes.
AD
Boogie
Rondo
Mirotic
Holliday
Moore
Miller
Clark
That's a pretty solid roster.
AD
Boogie
Rondo
Mirotic
Holliday
Moore
Miller
Clark
That's a pretty solid roster.
Posted on 5/13/18 at 3:50 pm to ForeverEllisHugh
And pray for Clark.
Man, he's lost "it".
He needs to spend the summer with Simmons.
Come back wanting the ball.
Man, he's lost "it".
He needs to spend the summer with Simmons.
Come back wanting the ball.
Posted on 5/13/18 at 4:39 pm to ShamelessPel
i agree that the Pels have little shot of beating a healthy Warriors w/o a quality 2 way wing. a top tier one would be great.
also agree that the Pels aren't a legit player for any of those guys. anything can happen, sure. but it's silly to truly believe the Pels are on the wishlist for those 3.
i agree. coaches were good throughout the year, particularly in scheming how to max Cousins and Davis, despite the protests of many Pels fans. nothing revolutionary in the playoffs, but smart plans and adjustments and a good ability to find a weakness and attack. they'll find the best way to play and see if it works.
that said, i just think Cousins coming off this injury will likely limit some of their options on both sides. it's strange to me to pencil Cousins in as the guy we saw. definitely not realistic to expect him to be at that level next season, if ever again.
also agree that the Pels aren't a legit player for any of those guys. anything can happen, sure. but it's silly to truly believe the Pels are on the wishlist for those 3.
quote:
the pels showed a surprising adaptability in the postseason from a coaching perspective. I’d have more faith for them to find a way to work with Cousins than what we saw in the regular season when you’re putting together a “one size fits all” offense/defense for every opponent in the league.
i agree. coaches were good throughout the year, particularly in scheming how to max Cousins and Davis, despite the protests of many Pels fans. nothing revolutionary in the playoffs, but smart plans and adjustments and a good ability to find a weakness and attack. they'll find the best way to play and see if it works.
that said, i just think Cousins coming off this injury will likely limit some of their options on both sides. it's strange to me to pencil Cousins in as the guy we saw. definitely not realistic to expect him to be at that level next season, if ever again.
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