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Started By
Message
re: What is Your Criteria for a Great Lyricist? And/or some Examples?
Posted on 6/3/13 at 9:56 am to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 6/3/13 at 9:56 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
You're still a soldier, I'm like Sly Stone in Cobra
quote:
Stallone’s Cobra was a renegade cop who refused to play by the rules
Sly Stone =/= Sylvester Stallone, so the lyrics are pretty silly right there.
1
Posted on 6/3/13 at 9:57 am to genro
quote:
Must have been born Robert Allen Zimmerman
This is what I think too.
Robert Hunter is pretty darn good himself.
Posted on 6/3/13 at 10:03 am to TexasTiger1185
quote:It's a Joycean optical allusion, you blue jean nicotine James Dean philistine
Sly Stone =/= Sylvester Stallone, so the lyrics are pretty silly right there
Posted on 6/3/13 at 10:23 am to inadaze
Most have mentioned good criteria bases, just wanted to add Conor Oberst and Elliott Smith to the list of great lyricists.
Posted on 6/3/13 at 10:34 am to Kafka
quote:
It's a Joycean optical allusion, you blue jean nicotine James Dean philistine
:mindblown:
Posted on 6/3/13 at 11:02 am to Kafka
quote:
It's a Joycean optical allusion, you blue jean nicotine James Dean philistine
Kafka, you are showing some potential as a rapper in this thread, or if you don't have the vocals, at least potential as a ghostwriter.
If pre-1960s cultural references can find their way back into the vernacular, you might be the GOAT.
Posted on 6/3/13 at 11:58 am to inadaze
quote:
What's your criteria for what makes up a good lyricist?
I think a certain amount of ambiguity is required to be a great lyricist, at least for me. Some of the biggest emotional responses, again for me, are evoked by songs without a completely clear message. To this end I'll suggest for consideration:
-Isaac Brock
-Adam Duritz
-James Mercer
-Maynard
-(Begrudgingly) Ben Gibbard
-and of course Paul Simon and Mr. Zimmerman (but these seem to obvious to mention)
Posted on 6/3/13 at 12:23 pm to LucasP
quote:
Adam Duritz
Yeah, I like his stuff.
And, I'll toss Bruce Spingsteen out there - while I've never made a secret of the fact I think he is an overrated frontman, singer and performer (I like Bob Seeger much better for music of that particular style), but his lyrics hold up.
Also, when he wanted to be, Gordon Sumner wasn't too shabby, either (after all, he was schoolteacher.)
Posted on 6/3/13 at 9:55 pm to Ace Midnight
A few things:
- Most of the rap lyrics posted here are nothing special.
- Maynard is good, but a little overrated as a lyricist.
- Get the frick out of here with that Brandon Boyd shite. Being a pretentious, pontificating douche doesn't make you a good lyricist.
Here are couple selections of great lyrics since this thread has been severely lacking:
Bob Dylan - It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)
Leonard Cohen - The Traitor
- Most of the rap lyrics posted here are nothing special.
- Maynard is good, but a little overrated as a lyricist.
- Get the frick out of here with that Brandon Boyd shite. Being a pretentious, pontificating douche doesn't make you a good lyricist.
Here are couple selections of great lyrics since this thread has been severely lacking:
Bob Dylan - It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)
quote:
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child’s balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying
Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
Suicide remarks are torn
From the fool’s gold mouthpiece the hollow horn
Plays wasted words, proves to warn
That he not busy being born is busy dying
Temptation’s page flies out the door
You follow, find yourself at war
Watch waterfalls of pity roar
You feel to moan but unlike before
You discover that you’d just be one more
Person crying
So don’t fear if you hear
A foreign sound to your ear
It’s alright, Ma, I’m only sighing
As some warn victory, some downfall
Private reasons great or small
Can be seen in the eyes of those that call
To make all that should be killed to crawl
While others say don’t hate nothing at all
Except hatred
Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Make everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It’s easy to see without looking too far
That not much is really sacred
While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have to stand naked
An’ though the rules of the road have been lodged
It’s only people’s games that you got to dodge
And it’s alright, Ma, I can make it
Advertising signs they con
You into thinking you’re the one
That can do what’s never been done
That can win what’s never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you
You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks they really found you
A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit
To satisfy, insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not forget
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to
Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to
For them that must obey authority
That they do not respect in any degree
Who despise their jobs, their destinies
Speak jealously of them that are free
Cultivate their flowers to be
Nothing more than something they invest in
While some on principles baptized
To strict party platform ties
Social clubs in drag disguise
Outsiders they can freely criticize
Tell nothing except who to idolize
And then say God bless him
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in
But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it’s alright, Ma, if I can’t please him
Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in sex, they dare
To push fake morals, insult and stare
While money doesn’t talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares
Propaganda, all is phony
While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer’s pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death’s honesty
Won’t fall upon them naturally
Life sometimes must get lonely
My eyes collide head-on with stuffed
Graveyards, false gods, I scuff
At pettiness which plays so rough
Walk upside-down inside handcuffs
Kick my legs to crash it off
Say okay, I have had enough, what else can you show me?
And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They’d probably put my head in a guillotine
But it’s alright, Ma, it’s life, and life only
Leonard Cohen - The Traitor
quote:
Now the Swan it floated on the English river
Ah the Rose of High Romance it opened wide
A sun tanned woman yearned me through the summer
and the judges watched us from the other side
I told my mother "Mother I must leave you
preserve my room but do not shed a tear
Should rumour of a shabby ending reach you
it was half my fault and half the atmosphere"
But the Rose I sickened with a scarlet fever
and the Swan I tempted with a sense of shame
She said at last I was her finest lover
and if she withered I would be to blame
The judges said you missed it by a fraction
rise up and brace your troops for the attack
Ah the dreamers ride against the men of action
Oh see the men of action falling back
But I lingered on her thighs a fatal moment
I kissed her lips as though I thirsted still
My falsity had stung me like a hornet
The poison sank and it paralysed my will
I could not move to warn all the younger soldiers
that they had been deserted from above
So on battlefields from here to Barcelona
I'm listed with the enemies of love
And long ago she said "I must be leaving,
Ah but keep my body here to lie upon
You can move it up and down and when I'm sleeping
Run some wire through that Rose and wind the Swan"
So daily I renew my idle duty
I touch her here and there -- I know my place
I kiss her open mouth and I praise her beauty
and people call me traitor to my face
Posted on 6/4/13 at 12:06 am to urinetrouble
quote:
Get the frick out of here with that Brandon Boyd shite. Being a pretentious, pontificating douche doesn't make you a good lyricist.
Why do you say this?
Posted on 6/4/13 at 3:55 am to inadaze
i know eminem has been already been brought up but frick it. i present stan:
quote:
My tea's gone cold, I'm wondering why I got outta bed at all
The morning rain clouds up my window and I can't see at all
And even if I could it'll all be gray but your picture on my wall
It reminds me, that it's not so bad, it's not so bad
Dear Slim, I wrote you but you still ain't calling
I left my cell, my pager and my home phone at the bottom
I sent two letters back in autumn, you must not've got em
There probably was a problem at the post office or something
Sometimes I scribble addresses too sloppy when I jot em
But anyways, frick it, what's been up man, how's your daughter
My girlfriend's pregnant too, I'm 'bout to be a father
If I have a daughter, guess what I'mma call her, I'mma name her Bonnie
I read about your Uncle Ronnie too, I'm sorry
I had a friend kill himself over some bitch who didn't want him
I know you probably hear this everyday, but I'm your biggest fan
I even got the underground shite that you did with Skam
I got a room full of your posters and your pictures, man
I like the shite you did with Rawkus too, that shite was phat
Anyways, I hope you get this man, hit me back
Just to chat, truly yours, your biggest fan, this is Stan
My tea's gone cold, I'm wondering why I got outta bed at all
The morning rain clouds up my window and I can't see at all
And even if I could it'll all be gray but your picture on my wall
It reminds me, that it's not so bad, it's not so bad
Dear Slim, you still ain't called or wrote, I hope you have a chance
I ain't mad, I just think it's fricked up you don't answer fans
If you didn't wanna talk to me outside your concert
You didn't have to, but you coulda signed an autograph for Matthew
That's my little brother man, he's only six years old
We waited in the blistering cold for you for four hours and you just said no
That's pretty shitty man, you're like his fricking idol
He wants to be just like you man, he likes you more than I do
I ain't that mad though, I just don't like being lied to
Remember when we met in Denver
You said if I'd write you, you would write back
See, I'm just like you in a way
I never knew my father neither
He used to always cheat on my Mom and beat her
I can relate to what you're saying in your songs
So when I have a shitty day, I drift away and put em on
Cause I don't really got shite else so that shite helps when I'm depressed
I even got a tattoo of your name across the chest
Sometimes I even cut myself to see how much it bleeds
It's like adrenaline, the pain is such a sudden rush for me
See everything you say is real and I respect you cause you tell it
My girlfriend's jealous cause I talk about you 24/7
But she don't know you like I know you Slim, no one does
She don't know what it was like for people like us growing up
You gotta call me man, I'll be the biggest fan you'll ever lose
Sincerely yours, Stan
P.S. we should be together too
My tea's gone cold, I'm wondering why I got outta bed at all
The morning rain clouds up my window and I can't see at all
And even if I could it'll all be gray but your picture on my wall
It reminds me, that it's not so bad, it's not so bad
Dear Mr. I'm-Too-Good-to-Call-or-Write-My-Fans
This'll be the last package I ever send your arse
It's been six months and still no word, I don't deserve it?
I know you got my last two letters, I wrote the addresses on 'em perfect
So this is my cassette I'm sending you, I hope you hear it
I'm in the car right now, I'm doing 90 on the freeway
Hey Slim, I drank a fifth of vodka, you dare me to drive
You know the song by Phil Collins "In the Air of the Night"
About that guy who coulda saved that other guy from drowning
But didn't, then Phil saw it all, then at a a show he found him
That's kinda how this is, you coulda rescued me from drowning
Now it's too late, I'm on a thousand downers now, I'm drowsy
And all I wanted was a lousy letter or a call
I hope you know I ripped all of your pictures off the wall
I love you Slim, we coulda been together, think about it
You ruined it now, I hope you can't sleep and you dream about it
And when you dream, I hope you can't sleep and you scream about it
I hope your conscience eats at you and you can't breathe without me
See Slim, shut up bitch, I'm tryna talk
Hey Slim, that's my girlfriend screaming in the trunk
But I didn't slit her throat, I just tied her up, see, I ain't like you
Cause if she suffocates she'll suffer more and then she'll die too
Well, gotta go, I'm almost at the bridge now
Oh shite, I forgot, how am I supposed to send this shite out
My tea's gone cold, I'm wondering why I got outta bed at all
The morning rain clouds up my window and I can't see at all
And even if I could it'll all be gray but your picture on my wall
It reminds me, that it's not so bad, it's not so bad
Dear Stan, I meant to write you sooner but I just been busy
You said your girlfriend's pregnant now, how far along is she?
Look, I'm really flattered you would call your daughter that
And here's an autograph for your brother, I wrote it on a Starter cap
I'm sorry I didn't see you at the show, I musta missed you
Don't think I did that shite intentionally just to diss you
But what's this shite you said about you like to cut your wrists too
I say that shite just clowning dog, come on, how fricked up is you?
You got some issues Stan, I think you need some counseling
To help your arse from bouncing off the walls when you get down some
And what's this shite about us meant to be together
That type of shite'll make me not want us to meet each other
I really think you and your girlfriend need each other
Or maybe you just need to treat her better
I hope you get to read this letter, I just hope it reaches you in time
Before you hurt yourself, I think that you'll be doing just fine
If you relax a little, I'm glad I inspire you, but Stan
Why are you so mad? Try to understand, that I do want you as a fan
I just don't want you to do some crazy shite
I seen this one shite on the news a couple weeks ago that made me sick
Some dude was drunk and drove his car over a bridge
And had his girlfriend in the trunk, and she was pregnant with his kid
And in the car they found a tape, but they didn't say who it was to
Come to think about it, his name was, it was you, damn
Posted on 6/4/13 at 9:31 am to BIGDAB
Brandon Boyd 
Posted on 6/4/13 at 2:35 pm to inadaze
Most of my favorites have already been named, but I want to add a few names that haven't been mentioned in the thread yet.
Immortal Technique
Erykah Badu
Jim Morrison
John Lennon
George Harrison
Immortal Technique
Erykah Badu
Jim Morrison
John Lennon
George Harrison
Posted on 6/4/13 at 3:49 pm to urinetrouble
quote:
- Get the frick out of here with that Brandon Boyd shite. Being a pretentious, pontificating douche doesn't make you a good lyricist.
If you are making reference to my post, I have no idea where the hell this came from.
Listen to the light grenades album. He might be a model and all that crazy shite, but as far as just musical appeal, he writes better lyrics than Maynard and has a hell of a better singing voice. Damnit you're ignorant.
Posted on 6/4/13 at 3:55 pm to inadaze
Not reading the thread, but has
been mentioned yet?
quote:
Put anthrax on a tampax and smack you til you can't stand
been mentioned yet?
Posted on 6/4/13 at 4:34 pm to FourThreeForty
Yeah, I'm not sure where the animosity for Brandon Boyd is coming from.
I didn't know he was a model. I don't really know anything about him, aside from his music which I think is outstanding. Great lyricist, in my opinion.
I didn't know he was a model. I don't really know anything about him, aside from his music which I think is outstanding. Great lyricist, in my opinion.
Posted on 6/4/13 at 8:59 pm to inadaze
quote:
Yeah, I'm not sure where the animosity for Brandon Boyd is coming from.
Maybe because of pretentious crap like this.
quote:
To resist is to piss in the wind
Anyone who does will end up smelling
Knowing this, why do I defy?
Because my inner voice is yelling
There is a fist pressing against
anyone who thinks something compelling
Our intuit we're taught to deny
And our soul we're told is for selling
Or trite, unoriginal observations like this.
quote:
Have you ever tried to step in my shoes?!
Have you ever tried to balance that beam?!
And if you ever tried to fit in my shoes,
They'll never be quite as soft as they seemed.
Or meaningless rhetorical statements like this.
quote:
What if your brain, unexpectedly and suddenly, picked out things to flip around and view a lot differently? What if blue sky, all of a sudden turned a purple hue? We would shite a brick the size of all of it... what if? What if I was just daydreaming? What if I lived in a pear? What if my watch read 4:20 every hour, every day? You can bet your dollar I'd be happy!
Or pedestrian similes like these.
quote:
Stand still
Like a hummingbird that flies
quote:
You’re about as reliable as paper shoes in bad weather
Bottom line: He tries hard at being deep and philosophical but fails with trite, unoriginal observations and self-help advice. I'm not a fan of his forced, meandering metaphors either.
Posted on 6/4/13 at 9:13 pm to FourThreeForty
quote:
has a hell of a better singing voice.
What the hell does that have to do with lyrics?
quote:
Damnit you're ignorant.
Says the guy who submitted Brandon Boyd to a discussion about the best lyricists in music.
Posted on 6/4/13 at 9:39 pm to urinetrouble
quote:
Bottom line: He tries hard at being deep and philosophical but fails with trite, unoriginal observations and self-help advice. I'm not a fan of his forced, meandering metaphors either.
To each his own, but who, in your opinion, succeeds at being philosophical?
When you say things like this:
quote:
meaningless rhetorical statements
quote:
trite, unoriginal observations
I am reminded of one of my favorite philosophers, Rene Descartes. From Discourse on the Method:
quote:
Of philosophy I will say nothing, except that when I saw that it had been cultivated for many ages by the most distinguished men, and that yet there is not a single matter within its sphere which is not still in dispute, and nothing, therefore, which is above doubt, I did not presume to anticipate that my success would be greater in it than that of others; and further, when I considered the number of conflicting opinions touching a single matter that may be upheld by learned men, while there can be but one true, I reckoned as well-nigh false all that was only probable.
To me, Boyd is writing about his truth at the time, and I really enjoy listening. Often, when you try to be as truthful as you possibly can, you will be met with resentment, and accusations of trying too hard. So, in a sense, you have given validation to the lyrics that you quoted:
quote:
To resist is to piss in the wind
Anyone who does will end up smelling
Knowing this, why do I defy?
Because my inner voice is yelling
There is a fist pressing against
anyone who thinks something compelling
Our intuit we're taught to deny
And our soul we're told is for selling
This post was edited on 6/4/13 at 9:56 pm
Posted on 6/4/13 at 9:56 pm to inadaze
quote:
To each his own, but who, in your opinion, succeeds at being philosophical?
I think a lot of the ones I listed do at times, but it is not an overwhelming theme and it isn't always direct.
quote:
To me, Boyd is writing about his truth at the time, and I really enjoy listening.
I don't find a lot of truth in his lyrics. And the truth I do find is obvious. He seems to harp really big on this preachy "the world is out to get you and your creative mind" thing that gets old fast.
quote:
Often, when you try to be as truthful as you possibly can, you will be met with resentment, and accusations of trying too hard. So, in a sense you have given validation to the lyrics that you quoted:
No, I haven't. Those lyrics suck. The initial metaphor is childish and induces clumsy, awkward imagery. I don't find much truth either. He acts like the world is trying suppress his voice or some ridiculous shite.
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