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Cliche? Maybe, but Led Zeppelin IV is a fantastic album...
Posted on 8/2/16 at 10:22 am
Posted on 8/2/16 at 10:22 am
I've been listening to it in its entirety lately. I was never much of a fan of Four Sticks, but when you shut your brain off from "singles" mode and listen to it in context, what leaps out is how good the band sounded with such a complex piece (for popular music that is - I mean, professional classical musicians laugh at our dissection of any popular music as particularly "complex" when it consists largely of 3 to 5 minute ditties, in 1 of 4 or 5 predictable keys, using the same time signature 90% of the time, and working from roughly a dozen chord progressions) -
But 4 sticks really has Jones and Bonham shining behind the funk. I famously hate The Crunge and think that it keeps Zeppelin from boasting of 5 consecutive "nearly perfect" albums, but I'm come to appreciate (untitled)/IV/ZoSo - whatever we're supposed to call the 4th LZ album as a whole. That's easy to do considering it contains my 2 favorite tracks by them - Stairway and When the Levee Breaks -
Black Dog
Rock and Roll
The Battle of Evermore
Stairway
Misty Mountain Hop
Four Sticks
Going to California
When the Levee Breaks
Damn - a lot of bands would kill for 2 or 3 of these tracks, and this is just 1 Led Zeppelin album.
Yeah, I know they ripped a lot of folks off, but they did it in such an entertaining way, I can look the other way. I mean, everybody rips everybody else off in music. There are only so many progressions.
But 4 sticks really has Jones and Bonham shining behind the funk. I famously hate The Crunge and think that it keeps Zeppelin from boasting of 5 consecutive "nearly perfect" albums, but I'm come to appreciate (untitled)/IV/ZoSo - whatever we're supposed to call the 4th LZ album as a whole. That's easy to do considering it contains my 2 favorite tracks by them - Stairway and When the Levee Breaks -
Black Dog
Rock and Roll
The Battle of Evermore
Stairway
Misty Mountain Hop
Four Sticks
Going to California
When the Levee Breaks
Damn - a lot of bands would kill for 2 or 3 of these tracks, and this is just 1 Led Zeppelin album.
Yeah, I know they ripped a lot of folks off, but they did it in such an entertaining way, I can look the other way. I mean, everybody rips everybody else off in music. There are only so many progressions.
8
Posted on 8/2/16 at 10:43 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
I mean, everybody rips everybody else off in music.
Not as egregiously and without giving due credit as Zeppelin did. And I'm a huge Zeppelin fan.
To the point of your thread, Zep I and II >> Zep IV IMHO
Posted on 8/2/16 at 11:37 am to Ace Midnight
For me, Houses of the Holy is their best, followed by Physical Graffiti.
There are times I think III trumps both of them, however.
There are times I think III trumps both of them, however.
This post was edited on 8/2/16 at 11:42 am
Posted on 8/2/16 at 12:43 pm to lsu2006
quote:
Not as egregiously and without giving due credit as Zeppelin did.
How is it egregious when they played those songs COMPLETELY different than the originals? If they were just doing covers - playing the same song the same way - that would be egregious. But they were taking old songs and transporting them to freaking Mars. You have to sit someone down with the original and tell them it was the original and listen hard to hear it. Zep's versions were really not even the same thing anymore.
This post was edited on 8/2/16 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 8/2/16 at 1:07 pm to Cooter Davenport
quote:
But they were taking old songs and transporting them to freaking Mars. You have to sit someone down with the original and tell them it was the original and listen hard to hear it. Zep's versions were really not even the same thing anymore.
So they covered songs and they sounded different. Ok? Still they never gave attribution. It's called having respect for those that came before you. See: Clapton
Posted on 8/2/16 at 2:36 pm to lsu2006
quote:
So they covered songs and they sounded different.
Not so much "cover" as they lifted whole sections of songs/lyrical passages and held it out as their own - now, mainly it was Page who did this on the musical side.
Plant and Page, when caught doing this, seemed to lean on the "homage" card - that hasn't worked in the modern era for Coldplay and Thicke/Farrell for more recent controversies, but everybody (except the critics) loved Led Zeppelin.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 4:10 am to Ace Midnight
Funny you mention "the crunge", I love it right where it is, and does not take away, yet enhances the idea of 5 straight perfect albums
"Has anyone seen the bridge???"
"Has anyone seen the bridge???"
Posted on 8/3/16 at 4:45 am to bgtiger
Where is that confounded bridge?
Hell, I live that song.
Hell, I live that song.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 7:45 am to bgtiger
quote:
Funny you mention "the crunge", I love it right where it is, and does not take away, yet enhances the idea of 5 straight perfect albums
I know it's polarizing - some folks have argued with me that it's great. Meh. I skip it every single time. I don't think I've ever listened to it all the way to the end.
Just awful. Considering how well I regard the catalogue as a whole - it's definitely an anomaly that anomaly may very well be me.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 8:19 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Funny you mention "the crunge", I love it right where it is, and does not take away, yet enhances the idea of 5 straight perfect albums
I'm a huge Zeppelin fan, but I've always skipped over "Four Sticks" and "The Crunge". It wasn't until I started spinning vinyl a couple years ago that I really started to appreciate them. Now I actually enjoy them both quite a bit.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 11:23 am to Cooter Davenport
All due to Jimmy Page's amazing guitar technique and production values, his production was a vital reason for Bonham's acclaim as a drummer. As a unit, they truly beefed up those original songs and made them their own. Hence why those blues songs are forever attributed to Zeppelin, but provides a good history lesson as to the founders of our popular music.
This post was edited on 8/3/16 at 11:30 am
Posted on 8/3/16 at 11:29 am to Ace Midnight
The Crunge proves Zeppelin couldn't play authentic funk music like Aerosmith. When they did it Stevie Wonder/Jimmy Page-guitar style, those were ace i.e. Trampled Underfoot but in being faithful to traditional arrangements, they sucked.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 11:32 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
play authentic funk music like Aerosmith
Posted on 8/3/16 at 11:35 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
All due to Jimmy Page's amazing guitar technique and production values
While I don't think much of Page as a pure technician, particularly not with peers like Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, during his experimental stage he was as innovative as one gets (and that includes Hendrix, Sky Dog, any of them) - AND had the ability to translate his musical ideas in an expressive, artistic way despite the fact he was in a commercially successful, "corporate" rock band. Which is why there are legions of Zeppelin fans to this day.
quote:
his production
No question this was the "secret" (if there is one) to Zeppelin's sound. It was 100% Page's vision and effort on the production side that made it all possible. While Plant's lyrics and vocal delivery style, JPJ's facility with anything that makes music and Bonham's practically unparalleled combination of power (rock) and finesse (jazz) on the kit made for fantastic ingredients, Jimmy Page was the chef.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 11:46 am to Ace Midnight
I believe Bonham's "power" is solely attributed to Jimmy's distance/depth production method. As a drummer, he's quite ordinary compared to virtuosos such as Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell and the "master of swing" himself, Charlie Watts. He had great technique but, as far as power is concerned, I'd be willing to argue Keith Moon was just as or more powerful than Bonham in terms of dynamics. He definitely is on the Mount Rushmore of Groove though.
This post was edited on 8/3/16 at 11:50 am
Posted on 8/3/16 at 11:53 am to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
I'd be willing to argue Keith Moon was just as or more powerful than Bonham in terms of dynamics.
Meh. Bonham shined through in live productions, too - and yes Page produced those, too, but had less of an amplifying effect with the techniques.
As for Moon - he was just something "different" on the kit - certainly powerful, but hardly a substitute for the timekeeping and crisp, tight polyrhythms that Bonham was able to deliver. Mitchell and Baker are a good comparisons, as he also combined a lot of power and finesse, along with great technique. Baker, particularly, was a great technician on the kit.
I like Watts, but he doesn't belong in this discussion, IMHO. That's like throwing Nick Mason (another favorite of mine) - neither an elite drummer, but the right drummer for The Stones and Floyd, respectively.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 12:01 pm to Ace Midnight
Charlie Watts is the best drummer, next to Ginger Baker, for any band in history except The Who because his playing would be totally out of place. The price for being super-professional.
This post was edited on 8/3/16 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 8/3/16 at 12:10 pm to Ace Midnight
I think the debut and Zep II are better than IV. The debut for the production values and Plant's incredibly powerful voice(nicked from Steve Marriott of Small Faces FYI) and II for the incessant heaviness and explosive riffs. But When The Levee Breaks is definitely a prime candidate for Zeppelin's best song.
This post was edited on 8/3/16 at 12:21 pm
Posted on 8/3/16 at 12:27 pm to ThePTExperience1969
quote:
But When The Levee Breaks is definitely a prime candidate for Zeppelin's best song.
And one of those rare occasions when they at least attempted to attribute it to the original artist.
Posted on 8/3/16 at 12:44 pm to Ace Midnight
Jimmy and Peter Grant LOVED appropriating publishing credits for song to extract every possible penny for the enterprise.
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