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Why do the largest movie theater chains hate Movie Pass so much?
Posted on 5/7/18 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 5/7/18 at 1:00 pm
Movie Pass is paying the full price of tickets. People with Movie Pass go to the theater more (at least initially), which means more tickets are purchased. When/if they stop going to the theater as frequently, the theaters don't make as much money, but without Movie Pass, they wouldn't have even gotten the initial bump.
A couple of chains have embraced movie pass, but Regal, AMC, and Cinemark have not, especially AMC. Why?
A couple of chains have embraced movie pass, but Regal, AMC, and Cinemark have not, especially AMC. Why?
4
Posted on 5/7/18 at 1:07 pm to Keys Open Doors
decent article on the ringer..
but it probably mostly stems from this...
LINK
quote:
I decided to see The Death of Stalin primarily because I knew it involved the creator of Veep and Steve Buscemi. I have a friend who also enjoys Veep and various Buscemi-related content, so I dragged her along with me. She didn’t have MoviePass, and we ended up buying beers and snacks to go along with the movie. Midtown Art Cinema landed about $30 in revenue from our outing that they probably wouldn’t have gotten in a MoviePass-less world.
Why, then, are some theaters so anxious about the company’s very existence? MoviePass and AMC, the United States’ largest theater chain, have been feuding ever since the subscription service slashed its price. AMC tried (and failed) to ban MoviePass from being used at its theaters last August. MoviePass then blocked some AMC theaters from being available on its app in January to prove that customers would simply go to another nearby theater rather than buy a full-price AMC ticket. At CinemaCon, the annual convention of the theater industry, the president of the National Association of Theatre Owners said exhibitors don’t need to be saved by subscription services. No one seems to be exactly happy about a company that is paying them for millions of movie tickets every month.
“The theater owners are scared because they don’t know where this goes,” says Matthew Belloni, editorial director at The Hollywood Reporter. “This cheapens the experience to the effect that it’s essentially free. … That’s what they don’t want. They want the value of the moviegoing experience to be considered high.”
but it probably mostly stems from this...
quote:
“They all wish they had done this themselves,” Lowe says. “They know that we’re able to get people to go from Theater A to Theater B, from Movie A to Movie B. And we’ll expect some small portion of the incremental profits they generate. It’s kind of like how United Airlines or Marriott Hotels wishes that Expedia and Orbitz and Travelocity didn’t exist. … That’s who we are—we are the Orbitz of the movie theater business.”
Not everyone sees it that way. “One of the hallmarks of this business is that it’s built on trust and relationships,” says Corcoran, from the theater industry lobbying group. “If you’re sort of being extorted into a position, that tends to diminish the amount of trust you have in the company that’s doing that. Whether that’s what [MoviePass] is doing or not is going to be up to individual theater companies to make their decision.”
LINK
This post was edited on 5/7/18 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 5/7/18 at 1:19 pm to BilJ
quote:
“The theater owners are scared because they don’t know where this goes,” says Matthew Belloni, editorial director at The Hollywood Reporter. “This cheapens the experience to the effect that it’s essentially free. … That’s what they don’t want. They want the value of the moviegoing experience to be considered high.”
This explanation doesn't make sense to me. If it "cheapens the experience" but people are still buying tickets and spending more money at the theaters, then why do the theaters care?
I agree with the second part. I am sure they are mad at themselves for not creating an AMC App that served as the vehicle for movie buffs. Instead the space was taken over by a third party.
Ultimately, I see it going one of two ways.
1) Movie Pass isn't well run enough to stay in business long-term. Too many customer service issues, too much gaming of the system that goes unmonitered, or the price point is simply too low. In that case, Movie Pass fails, which puts the theaters back to their original starting point.
2) Movie Pass works. Movie theaters get a bump in numbers from some users who buy more tickets than they would have otherwise. Others don't watch enough movies to make it worth it. This doesn't harm the theaters at all and makes Movie Pass some money. Movie Pass also makes money from data collection and from being used as a marketing and targeted advertising service for the major movie studios.
Worst case scenario for the theaters...a decade from now Movie Pass has enough clout to pay 80 cents on the dollar or something like that for a ticket.
Seems to me that the smart thing for the theaters to do would be to get in business with Movie Pass instead of trying to fight them.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 1:20 pm to Keys Open Doors
It's all about the "perceived devaluation" of the movie ticket. If people get movies for free, they begin to think that they were never that valuable to begin with. Or at least that's what the chains say.
If MoviePass goes away, do not look for the chains to create a comparable version. The best that you'll get is a two-fer deal per month. With AMC you already get a free movie for every ten movies that you see. They may double their point system or something like that. You'll never see unlimited movies for a low monthly fee.
If MoviePass goes away, do not look for the chains to create a comparable version. The best that you'll get is a two-fer deal per month. With AMC you already get a free movie for every ten movies that you see. They may double their point system or something like that. You'll never see unlimited movies for a low monthly fee.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 1:28 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
It's all about the "perceived devaluation" of the movie ticket. If people get movies for free, they begin to think that they were never that valuable to begin with. Or at least that's what the chains say.
But if the idea of Movie Pass works and people go to the theater more, then they still make more money. So the perceived devaluation is meaningless, right?
Posted on 5/7/18 at 1:35 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
Seems to me that the smart thing for the theaters to do would be to get in business with Movie Pass instead of trying to fight them.
I know, right? One of the universal laws of business that I've embraced is "Never fight against someone who's trying to give you money, so long as it's legal, moral and ethical."
We did the math the other day and figured out that since joining on Sept 12th 2017, only 16 of the 41 movies we've seen with MP would we have been willing to pay full retail, out of pocket. Sept/Oct/Nov, we paid $10/ea, so that's $60 total + the $90/ea for the annual subscription that we bought on Black Friday.
That means we're out $240 on theater tickets, total. At the very least, we're on par at $7.50/ea for those movies that we would've paid $12-15/ea to see anyway, but when you account for all 41 films, we're at $2.93/ea.
If you like going to the theater, that's a great deal. Somebody offers you 80% off of something you normally buy full retail, you take it.
The theater is getting full fare on the ticket, plus we're more inclined to buy concessions, since the cost of the ticket was spent back on Black Friday. They're just being spoiled brats. If somebody is offering to put butts in your seats and pay you for it, you take it.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 2:53 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
Seems to me that the smart thing for the theaters to do would be to get in business with Movie Pass instead of trying to fight them.
If the theaters want MoviePass to go out of business, all that they need to do is get on board with the program 100%. The worst thing for MoviePass is for a bunch of its casual members to suddenly begin to see a ton of movies.
The theater chains getting together and giving special perks and benefits to MoviePass users would drive usage up and screw over MoviePass. Have a 2 for 1 MoviePass night every Tuesday, where every MoviePass user can bring a friend for free.
IF they wanted to really hurt MoviePass.
This post was edited on 5/7/18 at 2:55 pm
Posted on 5/7/18 at 2:55 pm to BilJ
quote:
“One of the hallmarks of this business is that it’s built on trust and relationships,”
That is certainly not how I perceive the business as a customer. I also don't understand how the movie theater owners could believe this to be true. The big studios with what they perceive to be a blockbuster movie make all sorts of unequal demands for percentages of the profits, and guaranteed weeks of availability. The big studio guy might pretend this was a fair relationship but I don't think anyone else would see it that way.
RE: the devaluation argument? That is also nonsensical motivated reasoning. We see all sorts of evidence that piracy is an issue that relates to the substantial prices of movie tickets. People with movie pass are able to see a blockbuster once but more importantly for the smaller movies they are more likely to go see movies that are just not worth a blockbuster ticket price. That grows the pie for everyone concerned.
The movie studios need a Moviepass. Their products are often mediocre and typically worth less than the price they demand. Even though I appreciate some of the production value that goes into a blockbuster movie I don't think I've seen anything revolutionary in this respect since the Matrix came out 20 years ago. Without this service I would just stay home and wait for things to come out at a dollar theater or on a movie channel.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 2:55 pm to VoxDawg
quote:
only 16 of the 41 movies we've seen with MP would we have been willing to pay full retail, out of pocket.
I don't to the movies often enough to justify MP, but this is what theaters don't get. If I had MP I'd be more willing to go to the movies to see anything that looked interesting or if I had nothing else to do.
As it is now I'm not paying $15 a ticket unless it's a really good movie. So I only go 3-4 times a year.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 2:57 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
A couple of chains have embraced movie pass, but Regal, AMC, and Cinemark have not, especially AMC. Why?
My Regal theater accepts it.
But really they are likely just mad they didn't have the idea
Posted on 5/7/18 at 2:59 pm to GoldenSombrero
quote:
As it is now I'm not paying $15 a ticket unless it's a really good movie. So I only go 3-4 times a year.
Exactly. In the last year since getting Movie Pass I've averaged over four movies a month. Without that I think the only two movies I would have wanted to see in the theater (enough to pay the asking price) were Annihilation and Infinity War.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 3:03 pm to GoldenSombrero
Bingo. Barely 1/3 of the dollars we've sent Regal & AMC's way would have happened if MP didn't exist.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 3:16 pm to Keys Open Doors
I am not anti-movie pass, but the model is not sound. Pretty much is sliceline 
at this point.
Theaters have a right to be weary.
At some point MP is going to want to cut a deal and get subsidized tickets or will go belly up which will lead to drop in profits for theaters and also leave a negative impression of movies among MP customers. Many will hold the chains responsible for MP demise, even though it would not be warranted.
The "we will get enough people to sign up and not go to movies" is not a real good business plan.
at this point. Theaters have a right to be weary.
At some point MP is going to want to cut a deal and get subsidized tickets or will go belly up which will lead to drop in profits for theaters and also leave a negative impression of movies among MP customers. Many will hold the chains responsible for MP demise, even though it would not be warranted.
The "we will get enough people to sign up and not go to movies" is not a real good business plan.
This post was edited on 5/7/18 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 5/7/18 at 3:20 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
The "we will get enough people to sign up and not go to movies" is not a real good business plan.
That's not the business plan. The plan is to take the aggregated data of viewing patterns of members to sell to advertising agencies and the like.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 3:30 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
I am not anti-movie pass, but the model is not sound.
I've been using MoviePass for five years. They may fold after a decade or they might go down with the demise of physical theaters. But to those who say that it'll never work, it's been working fine. Blockbuster's heyday lasted about fifteen years. If MoviePass makes it through ten or fifteen years I'd consider it a good run.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 3:38 pm to monkeybutt
quote:
That's not the business plan. The plan is to take the aggregated data of viewing patterns of members to sell to advertising agencies and the like.
That is even a shittier plan. The movie going habits are already a known item in the USA for the industry. They would need to sell that information cross platform and the sample size would be minimal to what is gathered through social media, Nielsen, cable/netflix/hulu/amazon/etc. The 4 movies a person sees in a month is irrelevant to what the say/like online and watch at home. People seeing more than that will not be the norm either.
quote:
sell to advertising agencies and the like
The backlash to this model is also starting to build with recent happenings. Many will disagree, but a resurgence to privacy is coming.
Full disclosure I pay cash for my movie tickets
Posted on 5/7/18 at 3:45 pm to DarthRebel
quote:
Full disclosure I pay cash for my movie tickets
Full disclosure Chicken bought a new trolling motor for his bass boat by selling your online habits to Wal*Mart.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 3:48 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
've been using MoviePass for five years. They may fold after a decade or they might go down with the demise of physical theaters. But to those who say that it'll never work, it's been working fine. Blockbuster's heyday lasted about fifteen years. If MoviePass makes it through ten or fifteen years I'd consider it a good run
I am not disagreeing, use it while you can. It is a good deal.
People should not really question theaters for being skeptical though.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 3:51 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
online habits to Wal*Mart.
Walmart has more data on us than Chicken
Their data warehouse is legit, although in true Arkansas frickery Sam's and Walmart use it differently because they do not like each other.
That really sucks when you are trying to do actual marketing work that MP dreams to offer.
Posted on 5/7/18 at 4:27 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
1) Movie Pass isn't well run enough to stay in business long-term. Too many customer service issues, too much gaming of the system that goes unmonitered, or the price point is simply too low. In that case, Movie Pass fails, which puts the theaters back to their original starting point.
This is the case for any creation that is as bold as this one. There will be kinks. They will either figure it out or someone will come along and perfect the system to make it profitable
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