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Posted on 1/18/22 at 9:25 am to skullhawk
quote:Thats really why I was so frustrated in the end. All they needed to do was make his version appear SOMEWHAT consensual, and the story line makes sense. Including 3 storylines is a waste of time if they are all essentially the same thing. Kept waiting for the other shoe to drop till the credits rolled.
I didn't fully understand Jacques le Gris side of the story because he clearly raped her in his version of events.
Agreed on the duel itself, and all of the film work outside of the botched story line really.
Posted on 1/18/22 at 4:20 pm to skullhawk
quote:
I didn't fully understand Jacques le Gris side of the story because he clearly raped her in his version of events.
I saw it as a mirror of his encounter with the wench earlier in the movie. Her reactions (made aware to him) were extremely similar and he even carried her to the bed in the same manner. It is also questionable to impose the modern lens on medieval French sexual encounters, especially with a married woman. Just judging it as a rape also negates the potential for Marguerite to have the ulterior motive of getting rid of Jean. Echoed later when it became clear she didn't know she would be burned if Jean lost. I think it is more nuanced regarding Jacques's truth but it is hard to see it through modern eyes which clearly see a rape.
Having read the book years ago and seeing the movie I still have the feeling Marguerite was far more savvy and cunning than many give her credit for. She was not happy with Jean and may have either had a thing for Jacques or simply saw him as a means to an end for getting rid of Jean. She ultimately lived happily ever after once Jean was dead and never remarried so she might just have decided she disliked men or maybe, just maybe Jacques was more to her than a rapist. Women have been known to have conflicting feelings for the one man that has given them a "little death".
While he clearly raped her in the modern view and maybe even at the time (though it was "merely" a property crime then and Jean was the true aggrieved. I think there is a distinct possibility (in the movie and historically) that Jacques was an unwitting pawn in Marguerite's bigger plan.
quote:
The duel was brutal and one of the better fight scenes I've seen.
The duel was excellent in many ways, the odd thing is it is the least historically accurate portion of the entire movie. It is therefore a point on the side of cinematic license.
Posted on 1/18/22 at 6:28 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
I think it is more nuanced regarding Jacques's truth but it is hard to see it through modern eyes which clearly see a rape.
agree completely but we are watching a movie not a documentary...it’s a failure on the part of the filmmakers that Jacques’ “truth” doesn’t make any sense
Posted on 1/21/22 at 9:58 pm to cgrand
Loved it. I wish it were longer.
EDIT
I mean the movie, not the rape scenes
EDIT
I mean the movie, not the rape scenes
This post was edited on 1/21/22 at 9:59 pm
Posted on 1/22/22 at 1:08 am to Obtuse1
I agree with your take. And It was a good movie.
I would add that I think her version it shows her manipulating both men. She orchestrated most of what happens.
Her fathers treason sunk her fate. She wouldn’t marry well so she decided to play the long game and improve her fortune. She obviously didn’t have much in common or have much respect for her husband. He’s definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer and no one really likes him. She decides that she must do better.
She flirts with Drivers character and knows she has him hooked. Women are just mens property and knows that most men treat them as such. Her MIL even chides her for reporting the rape. That it happens all the time so learn to live with it. Especially from someone who is above your station.
Her husband is brave and does well in battle, so she hooks her wagon to this. It was a risk, but seems the odds were in her favor. Once they are victorious in the duel, No one questions her because they went through the church to gain satisfaction, so they felt she was blameless if they were victorious in the duel.
Her husband went into battle later and was killed. “Surprise surprise “. Eventually they all get it. Then she takes on the full role of leading her house and leads a fulfilling life for the rest of her days. Pretty simple story, it was just presented in an unusual way.
I would add that I think her version it shows her manipulating both men. She orchestrated most of what happens.
Her fathers treason sunk her fate. She wouldn’t marry well so she decided to play the long game and improve her fortune. She obviously didn’t have much in common or have much respect for her husband. He’s definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer and no one really likes him. She decides that she must do better.
She flirts with Drivers character and knows she has him hooked. Women are just mens property and knows that most men treat them as such. Her MIL even chides her for reporting the rape. That it happens all the time so learn to live with it. Especially from someone who is above your station.
Her husband is brave and does well in battle, so she hooks her wagon to this. It was a risk, but seems the odds were in her favor. Once they are victorious in the duel, No one questions her because they went through the church to gain satisfaction, so they felt she was blameless if they were victorious in the duel.
Her husband went into battle later and was killed. “Surprise surprise “. Eventually they all get it. Then she takes on the full role of leading her house and leads a fulfilling life for the rest of her days. Pretty simple story, it was just presented in an unusual way.
Posted on 2/18/22 at 12:27 pm to Jack Ruby
Just watched it this AM. I wasn't overly impressed. But, it didn't necessarily suck either.
It had the flavor of a medieval Once an Eagle. With Damon ironically playing the Soldier's soldier part of Sam Damon and Driver the sycophantic careerist role of Courtney Massengale
It had the flavor of a medieval Once an Eagle. With Damon ironically playing the Soldier's soldier part of Sam Damon and Driver the sycophantic careerist role of Courtney Massengale
This post was edited on 2/18/22 at 12:29 pm
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