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Story construction: Empire and TLJ (possible spoilers)

Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:43 am
Posted by AustinDawg
Austin, Tx
Member since Aug 2015
1436 posts
Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:43 am


While watching The Last Jedi (TLJ) it was painfully obvious the writing team was trying to follow the Empire pattern. I think they never really looked at what the parts of the story were supposed to do, and how they would interact. This is a tough comparison because Empire was a really well constructed movie.

Apologies if this is too long, and for my bias against TLJ.


In Empire:
Act 1: We start with Hoth. This establishes the precarious situation the Rebellion is in, even after a victory in A New Hope.

Act 2a: Han/Leia/Chewey vs the Empire and Asteroids. This further establishes Han, gives characters time together and introduces us to Cloud City, setting the stage for a finale.

Act 2b: Luke goes to Dagobah. Classic master/apprentice story, resulting in Luke making a choice to leave early.

Act 3: begins with Han being frozen, Luke arriving and then culminating in Luke v Vader, while Leia and Chewey plan an escape.

Finally, our heroes regroup at the end setting the stage for Jedi, and we see the rag-tag rebel fleet, which really didn't play a part in the story as the story was a personal one with Han-Leia and Luke-Vader.


In TLJ:
Act 1: We start on some planet, transports are trying to leave quickly, but we aren't given story to help us fill in the gaps.

Act 2a: Casino Plot during a space chase. Lots of problems here. The Casino planet wasn't important at all to the story. Shoehorning a new characters for us to care about at this point is sloppy storytelling, and even before that, what was Finn going to do in an escape pod by himself trying to find Rey? He knew she was safe.

Act 2b: Rey and Luke / Snoke and Kylo. Aside from the milking bit, this was well done. Rey was the apprentice waiting days for instruction as an unspoken test from the master. Following Luke up and Down the island, seeing him perform humble chores is a solid eastern-thought motif. Snoke's manipulation of Kylo was predictable but expected. It reinforces how dark side acolytes are treated by their masters. Rey leaves voluntarily similar to Luke, but in this case, there weren't even teachings to disregard, she decided she must look elsewhere. NEITHER Kylo NOR Rey really complete any training!

Act 3: Battle on the Salt Planet. Again we missed a lot here. Finn could have sacrificed himself. Luke could have been present and sacrificed himself. The battle for conversion between Rey and Kylo could have been increased after they teamed up to defeat Snoke and the guards.

Finally, all that remains of the rebellion leaves in the Millenium Falcon.


The writers tried to follow the Empire model, but really didn't understand how it worked, or how the plot points intersected and advanced.
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:46 am to
quote:

team was trying to follow the Empire pattern


Maybe I could buy this if you told they had never seen empire and it was only explained to them by a mentally retarded toddler.

TFA was a brilliant take on the themes of ANH told through new characters with some new stuff in it.

I can't imagine any parallel between Empire and Last Jedi.
Posted by geauxtigers87
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2011
25205 posts
Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:47 am to
What you didn't like the death star ramming cannon laser trebuchet
Posted by CGSC Lobotomy
Member since Sep 2011
80155 posts
Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:48 am to
quote:

Act 1: We start on some planet, transports are trying to leave quickly, but we aren't given story to help us fill in the gaps.


Let's start with this.

Empire takes place 3 years after Episode IV. The Last Jedi takes place IMMEDIATELY after Episode VII.

My biggest complaint is that the filmmaker expects the audience to believe that the entire film takes place over the course of less than a week (the fleet had 6 hours left of fuel on a constant burn and we're supposed to believe that Finn and Rose completed their mission in 5?)
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:54 am to
quote:

What you didn't like the death star ramming cannon laser trebuchet



You mean the giant laser beam death star cannon that can melt its way through an impenetrable shield door but simultaneously can't destroy an old rusty shite bucket flying directly into it because plot armor and then Chinese came out of nowhere and also wasn't destroyed AND THEN Kylo orders every single weapon out there to blast full power for 30 seconds right in front of the door and somehow Finn just meandered through that unharmed and unphased dragging Chinese on a stretcher he inexplicably had access to?
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:55 am to
quote:

the fleet had 6 hours left of fuel on a constant burn and we're supposed to believe that Finn and Rose completed their mission in 5?)



That was horseshite. The whole movie was horseshite.
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