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Started By
Message
re: Star Trek: TOS Watchers - Season 1 Wrapup *Page 25*
Posted on 8/20/13 at 12:29 pm to TigersRuleTheEarth
Posted on 8/20/13 at 12:29 pm to TigersRuleTheEarth
quote:
Some of Spock's command decisions didn't seem logical in this episode. I was particularly put off by him making that security officer stay behind after the natives had prooven themselves very capable and violent hunters.
He had blinders on - at that point (we demonstrated our superior weapons) - thinking that the creatures would react logically. He also thought that Gaetano would shoot any that returned, or at least beat feet back to the shuttle to provide advance warning (the whole point of posting a sentry) - and not lose his phaser and get killed like a b*tch.
He lamented those blinders later having made all the logically correct decisions, but still losing 2 men.
He also demonstrates that he learned and acted on an impulse in orbit.
That's sort of the whole point of this one - Spock learns that logic isn't always the answer (but that "logically" you can reach the decision to act out of desperation, if no "logical" choice is available.
)
1
Posted on 8/20/13 at 2:24 pm to Ace Midnight
This ep had some pretty good effects in the updated version (I've been watching on Netflix). I like how the planet looked and such...gave it a more realistic vibe for everything to play out. Event the shuttle "flare" at the end was pretty badass looking
Posted on 8/20/13 at 8:03 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
and why was he so opposed to killing the natives? He was gun ho to kill Mitchell but won't shoot primative hunters that have killed one crew member and threaten all of them.
The Spock character evolved somewhat inconsistently on this point. You're correct about his (very logical, I might add) drive to kill Mitchell - obviously that was an early story. It served to make him seem more machine like AND to juxtapose with Kirk wanting to save his friend.
By this episode, Spock seems much more like the pacifist brainy hippie elf he sort of represented at the time. Even later, with the Horta, he and Kirk went back and forth about killing it - with Kirk advocating killing it at first, with Spock objecting in the abstract, and both reversing their position when faced with the creature in person.
But, in this episode, this conflict is to show yet another fault line between the alien Spock and the all too human crew.
Posted on 8/21/13 at 10:52 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
and why was he so opposed to killing the natives?
I think one reason was because he didn't understand them. And in his mind, until he understood what he was dealing with he couldn't make a logical decision on how best to deal with them.
Posted on 8/21/13 at 9:52 pm to TigerGman
quote:
I think one reason was because he didn't understand them.
This is certainly true, at least at first. However, Spock is a quick study. What hampered him was the distraction of command - he was generally a better advisor than executive. Kirk would have sucked as a science officer.
quote:
And in his mind, until he understood what he was dealing with he couldn't make a logical decision on how best to deal with them.
No question.
Okay - last call for The Galileo Seven - next up, Court Martial.
Posted on 8/22/13 at 2:40 pm to TigerGman
quote:
I think one reason was because he didn't understand them. And in his mind, until he understood what he was dealing with he couldn't make a logical decision on how best to deal with them
I have to disagree a little here. I think he was expecting them to react logically. By demonstrating superior weaponry, he thinks logically the hunter gatherers should flee. What bugs me about that is, he's constantly talking about flawed, emotional humans. Shouldn't he be intelligent/educated enough to realize that a primative species might not be logical enough to grasp that?
Posted on 8/23/13 at 5:59 am to H-Town Tiger
*COURT MARTIAL*
Another take on "Kirk versus a Computer" - but with a twist. A nice device to put Kirk in the dock.
Some very, very nice performances from the guest stars - Joan Marshall (a former showgirl) is convincing as one of Kirk's old flames, Areel Shaw - and is a rare example of someone his own age. Alisha Cook's Cogley is one of my favorite TOS guest roles and Richard Webb (television's Captain Midnight
from the 1950s) was wonderfully malevolent and crazy as Finney.
I like this show more and more as I get older because, as an attorney, I like to anticipate how technology will be used in the future - and, obviously, it was some of my first exposure to courtroom drama.
In addition to Kirk's testimony and Spock's dealing with the computer, another scene I liked was in the bar where there is a cold reception for Kirk from his fellow officers, particularly academy classmates. This shows there is some resentment for Kirk's rapid rise through the ranks. It was only brought to the surface by the death of Finney - apparently someone they all liked, crazy though he was.
Another take on "Kirk versus a Computer" - but with a twist. A nice device to put Kirk in the dock.
Some very, very nice performances from the guest stars - Joan Marshall (a former showgirl) is convincing as one of Kirk's old flames, Areel Shaw - and is a rare example of someone his own age. Alisha Cook's Cogley is one of my favorite TOS guest roles and Richard Webb (television's Captain Midnight
from the 1950s) was wonderfully malevolent and crazy as Finney. I like this show more and more as I get older because, as an attorney, I like to anticipate how technology will be used in the future - and, obviously, it was some of my first exposure to courtroom drama.
In addition to Kirk's testimony and Spock's dealing with the computer, another scene I liked was in the bar where there is a cold reception for Kirk from his fellow officers, particularly academy classmates. This shows there is some resentment for Kirk's rapid rise through the ranks. It was only brought to the surface by the death of Finney - apparently someone they all liked, crazy though he was.
Posted on 8/23/13 at 9:06 am to Ace Midnight
Very good episode. Of all the times we see Kirk in danger of being killed, captured, tortured, ect., the idea of him being disgraced is the most threatening of all. Episodes like this, where the hero is wrongfully accused, always get me more worried for the character than other episodes.
Great scene. I would've liked to see an apology from Stone at the end, since they seemed to be friends as the episode started.
Another great scene from Spock, showing his trust and loyalty to Kirk.
This is the first we see of the dress uniforms, which were well done. Also the first time we hear the term "starfleet".
Speaking of uniforms, I find it interesting that Stone wears red as a Commodore.
As a child, I never liked the heartbeat scene. The sound of that single heartbeat and the idea of someone hiding and creeping about alone in that empty ship always freaked me out.
quote:
STONE: I'm thinking of the service. I won't have it smeared...
KIRK: By what, Commodore Stone?
STONE: All right. By an evident perjurer who's either covering his bad judgment, his cowardice, or
KIRK: That's as far as you go, sir.
Great scene. I would've liked to see an apology from Stone at the end, since they seemed to be friends as the episode started. quote:
SPOCK: Lieutenant, I am half Vulcanian. Vulcanians do not speculate. I speak from pure logic. If I let go of a hammer on a planet that has a positive gravity, I need not see it fall to know that it has in fact fallen.
SHAW: I do not see what that has to
SPOCK: Gentlemen, human beings have characteristics just as inanimate objects do. It is impossible for Captain Kirk to act out of panic or malice. It is not his nature.
Another great scene from Spock, showing his trust and loyalty to Kirk.
This is the first we see of the dress uniforms, which were well done. Also the first time we hear the term "starfleet".
Speaking of uniforms, I find it interesting that Stone wears red as a Commodore.
As a child, I never liked the heartbeat scene. The sound of that single heartbeat and the idea of someone hiding and creeping about alone in that empty ship always freaked me out.
Posted on 8/23/13 at 9:31 am to Master of Sinanju
quote:
the idea of him being disgraced is the most threatening of all.
Spot on. I thought Shatner did a great job with this script. Particularly the scene where he demands the Court Martial.
Great early twist where old girlfriend offers him advice then tells him she is going to be the one prosecuting him.
Fine acting all around.
Posted on 8/23/13 at 9:53 am to Master of Sinanju
quote:
As a child, I never liked the heartbeat scene. The sound of that single heartbeat and the idea of someone hiding and creeping about alone in that empty ship always freaked me out.
That was a great literary device and actually a wonderful twist on the "Tell Tale Heart" - whoever wrote the story was probably inspired by that.
The other great twist is that Cogley's speech regarding a machine having no rights, but a man must, was given a twist in TNG (with Data's hearing on self-determination).
Posted on 8/23/13 at 10:30 am to Ace Midnight
Great episode! Especially since I had never seem it before!
Now I know where TGN got some of its courtroom inspired stories. I don't know the name of the episodes but I'm particularly talking about the episode where Riker is on trial for the explosion of a research lab studying Kreeger Waves and the episode where Picard outsmarts a conman trying to pose as the devil.
Some of the best Star Trek episodes took place in a courtroom.
Now I know where TGN got some of its courtroom inspired stories. I don't know the name of the episodes but I'm particularly talking about the episode where Riker is on trial for the explosion of a research lab studying Kreeger Waves and the episode where Picard outsmarts a conman trying to pose as the devil.
Some of the best Star Trek episodes took place in a courtroom.
Posted on 8/23/13 at 11:12 am to TigersRuleTheEarth
quote:
Some of the best Star Trek episodes took place in a courtroom.
Posted on 8/23/13 at 11:47 am to gjackx
quote:
gjackx
That TNG episode "The First Duty" uses the same bell as used in TOS Court Martial. One of the rare prop crossovers.
Posted on 8/23/13 at 11:52 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
That TNG episode "The First Duty" uses the same bell as used in TOS Court Martial. One of the rare prop crossovers.
WOW, really? I never knew that!
It still boggles my mind that Robert Duncan McNeill's character from TNG is not the same character in Voyager. He has a very similar story, so why not continue the character with the troubled past from TNG?
Posted on 8/23/13 at 11:58 am to gjackx
quote:
It still boggles my mind that Robert Duncan McNeill's character from TNG is not the same character in Voyager. He has a very similar story, so why not continue the character with the troubled past from TNG?
Have you seen him lately? He got faaatttt! (And not yet 50...)
Posted on 8/23/13 at 11:59 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Have you seen him lately? He got faaatttt!
A life in space does that to many a good man
Posted on 8/23/13 at 10:36 pm to gjackx
quote:
A life in space does that to many a good man
Shatner got fat with the quickness, 'tis true.
Posted on 8/24/13 at 11:49 am to Ace Midnight
NM
This post was edited on 8/24/13 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 8/24/13 at 8:29 pm to Ace Midnight
Okay, gang, last call for Court Martial.
Tomorrow we will start both parts of The Menagerie and The Cage material, where appropriate, as well. We'll probably carry that on for the entire week, because there is a lot of material to cover.
Tomorrow we will start both parts of The Menagerie and The Cage material, where appropriate, as well. We'll probably carry that on for the entire week, because there is a lot of material to cover.
This post was edited on 8/24/13 at 8:30 pm
Posted on 8/25/13 at 9:10 pm to Ace Midnight
*THE MENAGERIE I&II (plus The Cage)*
A great episode - we learn that Spock will break the rules, lie, cheat and steal out of loyalty. We also see most of the original pilot, intertwined with another great Court Martial sequence. In fact, production wise, Kirk and Spock were court martialed in back-to-back episodes.
Another production note - Hunter did not play Pike in the chair. Sean Kinney (who played Lt. Depaul in several episodes) played in the injured Pike.
A great episode - we learn that Spock will break the rules, lie, cheat and steal out of loyalty. We also see most of the original pilot, intertwined with another great Court Martial sequence. In fact, production wise, Kirk and Spock were court martialed in back-to-back episodes.
Another production note - Hunter did not play Pike in the chair. Sean Kinney (who played Lt. Depaul in several episodes) played in the injured Pike.
This post was edited on 8/25/13 at 9:17 pm
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