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Message
re: Star Trek First Impressions (SPOILERS IN THREAD)
Posted on 5/8/09 at 11:01 am to Volvagia
Posted on 5/8/09 at 11:01 am to Volvagia
quote:
What was the connection with the Klingons...why was there an attack before both major events (where Kirk's dad died and when they blew up Vulcan).
Clearly something for the sequel.
quote:
So when did Romulan planet blow up? Spock was still alive so it couldn't have been that far in the future, and yet Nemesis involved their planet.
Spock was alive for TNG, remember. Vulcans, even half human Vulcans, have long lives. Sarek (Spock's old man) was died during TNG.
Regarding Romulus, it was destroyed in an alternate timeline, which is what this movie represented.
2
Posted on 5/8/09 at 11:24 am to Sophandros
quote:
Spock was alive for TNG, remember. Vulcans, even half human Vulcans, have long lives. Sarek (Spock's old man) was died during TNG.
Ah...didn't realize that.
quote:
Regarding Romulus, it was destroyed in an alternate timeline, which is what this movie represented.
Sure about that? Pretty positive that Nero and old Spock is from the timeline that we knew from the original series.
It was Nero going back that caused the shift and changed everything from that point on.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 11:31 am to Sophandros
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
You are forgetting or don't know but Spock was in several next generation stories and even Sarek was in a next generation story. Vulcans can live much longer than humans and even humans live much longer than they do now.
Bones was in the first SNG episode and he was still alive at something like 130.
So their is no problem with Spock and Nemesis.
They were hiding in wait in Saturn's rings. The point was to ambush the Romulan ship. Head to head there was no chance to win the battle. They waited for Spock to mess up the Romulan ship and then they jumped out and attacked.
Since this is a spoiler post, the one problem I had was the same problem I had with Nemesis. There is no reason for Nero to hate Spock and the Federation. Spock did not cause the Super Nova. He simply was unable to use the red matter to destroy the sun before it went nova. He was too late to save Romulus.
In nemesis, it made no sense that the bad guy wanted to destroy earth when it was the Romulans that had enslaved him. He would have wanted to destroy Romulus.
So both movies really didn't do a good job of creating a situation that would make the bad guy insanely angry with the Federation.
You are forgetting or don't know but Spock was in several next generation stories and even Sarek was in a next generation story. Vulcans can live much longer than humans and even humans live much longer than they do now.
Bones was in the first SNG episode and he was still alive at something like 130.
So their is no problem with Spock and Nemesis.
They were hiding in wait in Saturn's rings. The point was to ambush the Romulan ship. Head to head there was no chance to win the battle. They waited for Spock to mess up the Romulan ship and then they jumped out and attacked.
Since this is a spoiler post, the one problem I had was the same problem I had with Nemesis. There is no reason for Nero to hate Spock and the Federation. Spock did not cause the Super Nova. He simply was unable to use the red matter to destroy the sun before it went nova. He was too late to save Romulus.
In nemesis, it made no sense that the bad guy wanted to destroy earth when it was the Romulans that had enslaved him. He would have wanted to destroy Romulus.
So both movies really didn't do a good job of creating a situation that would make the bad guy insanely angry with the Federation.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 11:31 am to tigerguy121
Vol
Please add spoilers to the post title now that people have mentioned actual plot points.
Please add spoilers to the post title now that people have mentioned actual plot points.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 11:54 am to TigerMyth36
quote:
Since this is a spoiler post, the one problem I had was the same problem I had with Nemesis. There is no reason for Nero to hate Spock and the Federation.
Not in the movie, but if you read the movie's comic prequel, you would see why Nero has such a hard on for the Spock, Vulcan, and the Federation.
You also learn that Nero's ship is even powerful for his time, considering it's Romulan/Borg tech.
/yeah I'm a nerd
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:05 pm to tigerguy121
Well they should have that information in the movie. It is quite pertinent because it really doesn't make much sense that he blames Spock and the Federation which was the same problem with Nemesis.
The comics should embellish the movie, not hold information needed to justify the bad guys motive.
By the way, Damn! Uhura was smoking hot.
The comics should embellish the movie, not hold information needed to justify the bad guys motive.
By the way, Damn! Uhura was smoking hot.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:07 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
Well they should have that information in the movie
Would've included a ton of next generation characters and I guess they were trying to cut ties to the original franchise as much as possible
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:08 pm to TigerMyth36
The movie was already two hours long. At some point, you have to let things go.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:29 pm to Sophandros
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
Well the motive of the bad guy should not be cut.
I loved the film but I think they should have done a better job with motive. It simply did not make much sense as told in the movie.
The way the motive is described, every single planet with Space travel should be equally to blame for not saving Romulus. Not just Vulcan and Federation Planets.
Oh and the poster that wanted to know the Klingon connection it probably had nothing more to do with flying through Klingon territory to get to Vulcan then back through it to get to Earth.
Well the motive of the bad guy should not be cut.
I loved the film but I think they should have done a better job with motive. It simply did not make much sense as told in the movie.
The way the motive is described, every single planet with Space travel should be equally to blame for not saving Romulus. Not just Vulcan and Federation Planets.
Oh and the poster that wanted to know the Klingon connection it probably had nothing more to do with flying through Klingon territory to get to Vulcan then back through it to get to Earth.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:39 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
Oh and the poster that wanted to know the Klingon connection it probably had nothing more to do with flying through Klingon territory to get to Vulcan then back through it to get to Earth.
Wasn't it a huge point in Kirk's realizing it was a trap at Vulcan? The fact that it also happened 20 years prior when Nero first appeared. Also, the Klingon part in the second thing happened the day before the attack on Vulcan, not after.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:41 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
They were hiding in wait in Saturn's rings. The point was to ambush the Romulan ship. Head to head there was no chance to win the battle. They waited for Spock to mess up the Romulan ship and then they jumped out and attacked.
Right. I got that. I said as much.
My question was HOW exactly were they going to ambush them. The Romulan ship was already at Earth before they even warped into the rings. And they left the rings before they even teleported Spock over.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:44 pm to Volvagia
The first attack had nothing to do with Klingons. What Kirk remembered was the Black Lightning in space.
The Klingons may have come to investigate the same black lightning when Spock's ship came through the rift 23 years later. The rift may have been in Klingon territory.
One question I did have. Where was the Vulcan fleet? Why was Vulcan completely unguarded. Earth was easy pickings because the Earth fleet was destroyed at Vulcan, but I wish they had shown at least a small battle at Vulcan with Vulcan ships.
Yes I know money and time, but don't pick Vulcan if you aren't going to show any of the defense of the planet.
The Klingons may have come to investigate the same black lightning when Spock's ship came through the rift 23 years later. The rift may have been in Klingon territory.
One question I did have. Where was the Vulcan fleet? Why was Vulcan completely unguarded. Earth was easy pickings because the Earth fleet was destroyed at Vulcan, but I wish they had shown at least a small battle at Vulcan with Vulcan ships.
Yes I know money and time, but don't pick Vulcan if you aren't going to show any of the defense of the planet.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:48 pm to TigerMyth36
The original plan was to hide in the rings until Kirk and Spock had Pike and they had destroyed the black hole weapon.
I was actually wrong. An Ambush was not the real plan. Once they had pike and had destroyed the weapon, then they would signal the ship to transport back to Enterprise.
They did tell Sulu to hit the Romulan ship with everything if an opportunity presented itself.
If you want to nitpick, then ask yourself why the Romulan ship had no shields. They were able to transport on and off at will. Pretty much all Trek ships have shields, so just because it was a mining ship, it is absurd to think they had no shields.
And I am sure the canon nerds are more than a little furious over the warp speed transport.
I was actually wrong. An Ambush was not the real plan. Once they had pike and had destroyed the weapon, then they would signal the ship to transport back to Enterprise.
They did tell Sulu to hit the Romulan ship with everything if an opportunity presented itself.
If you want to nitpick, then ask yourself why the Romulan ship had no shields. They were able to transport on and off at will. Pretty much all Trek ships have shields, so just because it was a mining ship, it is absurd to think they had no shields.
And I am sure the canon nerds are more than a little furious over the warp speed transport.
This post was edited on 5/8/09 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:50 pm to TigerMyth36
I am not a Trekkie, so I dunno, but it was my impression that the Federation represented the military/defensive fleet of its memebers. Sure, the individual planets may have some starships, but not much significant military wise.
Does anyone know any backstory as to where/what that fleet that Spock wanted to rendezvous was doing?
Does anyone know any backstory as to where/what that fleet that Spock wanted to rendezvous was doing?
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:52 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
If you want to nitpick, then ask yourself why the Romulan ship had no shields. They were able to transport on and off at will. Pretty much all Trek ships have shields, so just because it was a mining ship, it is absurd to think they had no shields.
This is getting to my original point. From what they were saying, it seemed like their plan was to beat Nero to Saturn (which he was supposed to get near), hide, and beam Spock and Kirk aboard when he passed in warp.
But then they show Nero already at Earth.
But yeah that still doesn't explain porting Pike and Kirk out.
This post was edited on 5/8/09 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:55 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
The way the motive is described, every single planet with Space travel should be equally to blame for not saving Romulus. Not just Vulcan and Federation Planets.
He wanted his revenge against Spock specifically, and the Vulcans and Romulans haven't gotten along since they diverged as races.
The Romulans have always hated the Federation, so for him to destroy Earth, the HQ of the Federation, would be greatness in the eyes of the Romulan Empire.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:55 pm to Volvagia
Probably just out on routine maneuvers.
The federation would be no different than say Nato. We give troops and arms to Nato but still have defense of our own territory.
Look, I know why as stated. Money and zime. Another big battle would have cost more money and made the movie even longer. I wouldn't have minded a simple line tossed out to the effect " We need to get to Vulcan fast since their fleet is too far away with the quelling the Omega uprising." Just something to explain why they are defenseless against a single ship with no shields.
Not to mention any ground to air phasers. The problem is the whole ending relies on them transporting into the ship which they could not do with shields up. They could have gotten around that by having the a subordinate say, we must raise shields and Nero saying, we can't with the drill active.
The federation would be no different than say Nato. We give troops and arms to Nato but still have defense of our own territory.
Look, I know why as stated. Money and zime. Another big battle would have cost more money and made the movie even longer. I wouldn't have minded a simple line tossed out to the effect " We need to get to Vulcan fast since their fleet is too far away with the quelling the Omega uprising." Just something to explain why they are defenseless against a single ship with no shields.
Not to mention any ground to air phasers. The problem is the whole ending relies on them transporting into the ship which they could not do with shields up. They could have gotten around that by having the a subordinate say, we must raise shields and Nero saying, we can't with the drill active.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:58 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
It is quite pertinent because it really doesn't make much sense that he blames Spock and the Federation which was the same problem with Nemesis.
It is a bit of an overreaction, but at least you can see where he is coming from.
The guy from Nemesis just wanted to fricking kill Earth.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 12:59 pm to TigerMyth36
Seph.
There are people on Romulus that actually want a reconciliation with Vulcan. That was the point of the next generation episodes with Spock.
Nero said he blamed Spock for the destruction of Romulus which makes no sense because Spock had nothing to do with the Sun going nova.
There are people on Romulus that actually want a reconciliation with Vulcan. That was the point of the next generation episodes with Spock.
Nero said he blamed Spock for the destruction of Romulus which makes no sense because Spock had nothing to do with the Sun going nova.
Posted on 5/8/09 at 1:01 pm to TigerMyth36
There is a possibility that Nero was quite mad at this point, and wanted to lash out at SOMEONE.
You're approaching this as if Nero were sane...
You're approaching this as if Nero were sane...
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