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re: Game of Thrones S4:E5:"First of His Name", HODORS ONLY (no book readers)
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:32 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:32 am to TigerinATL
i agree that jon would do everything in his power to not let bran go.
0
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:33 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I think Jon Snow would go if Bran could say "I'm special and can stop the war." But all Bran has to tell him right now is "I'm special and I need to go find a tree and a 3 eyed bird."
I don't think he would let him go regardless but that is true too. Bran doesn't even seem to know yet why they are going to the 3 eyed raven. Just that they have to.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:36 am to Mystery
No chance Jon Snow lets his crippled brother stay beyond the wall with a couple of other sickly kids and Hodor. He wasn't even going to let Krastor's wildling women stay alone out there. 
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:38 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Did Bolton specifically tell him to kill them, or did he want them alive? I don't remember exactly what he told Locke to do.
Here is the scene (it may not be the whole thing...youtube hates my computer at work).
I watched the scene last night (from episode two), and Roose Bolton basically sends Locke to find/hunt Bran and Rickon since Theon hadn't actually killed them. And Ramsay (I think) mentions that Jon Snow is at Castle Black and that's where they might be, and also that JS is their half-brother and could be a threat anyway. So it's basically understood that Locke was on a mission to kill them (while Ramsay and Theon went to take Moat Cailin).
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:39 am to CocomoLSU
quote:
That was the only reason I could come up with. It was very weird that he cut him loose and was gonna take him. And as far as he knows (from what Ramsay and Theon said), Bran and Rickon were possibly together.
Well - maybe Ramsey wants them as hostages - almost any child is worth more alive than dead. He trusted Locke, but perhaps only to a point - and maybe the bounty is higher if he brings one or both back alive.
After all a living, legitimate Stark male is worth way more than Sansa or Arya - both as a hostage and leverage against other claims. Ramsey knows that Sansa is still alive and married to a Lannister. Sansa is only the "key to the north" if Brandon and Rickon are dead.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:41 am to Mystery
quote:
Agree to disagree. Sight or not., there is no way I would let my cripple little brother go off to the North with 2 hostile armies that way. Just no way. No matter how much convincing he would do. It is not as easy to get away from Jon and the night's watch as you are making it seem.
Maybe not, we can just disagree like you said.
Of course it doesn't matter anyway because they didn't say shite to Jon.
I did think it was awesome/cold-blooded how Jojen tells Karl he has the sight, to try and save Meera, and Karl is all "Can you see what I'm about to do to your sister?"
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:42 am to CocomoLSU
just my thoughts, but maybe his plan was to get Bran away from everything to torture him to find out where Rickon is, then kill him.
Once he knew where Rickon was then he could kill Jon and begin his hunt for Rickon
just my thoughts
Once he knew where Rickon was then he could kill Jon and begin his hunt for Rickon
just my thoughts
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:43 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
After all a living, legitimate Stark male is worth way more than Sansa or Arya - both as a hostage and leverage against other claims. Ramsey knows that Sansa is still alive and married to a Lannister. Sansa is only the "key to the north" if Brandon and Rickon are dead.
But I thought Sansa was key only because her brothers were all dead and you could MARRY her and rule the north. If her brothers are alive, they are true heirs to the north because they are the males.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:45 am to LSUSoulja08
quote:
just my thoughts, but maybe his plan was to get Bran away from everything to torture him to find out where Rickon is, then kill him.
That actually makes a lot of sense. If his mission was to kill them all then slaughtering the tied up prisoners and stabbing Jon in the back would have been the way to go. But then he would have no clue and no lead on Rickon and Lord Bolton would not be pleased.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 11:50 am to TigerinATL
exactly, and I think he would have a much better chance of getting the info from bran rather than Jon
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:01 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
But I thought Sansa was key only because her brothers were all dead and you could MARRY her and rule the north. If her brothers are alive, they are true heirs to the north because they are the males.
That's all true - but look at Tywin's status - he isn't king, nor is he married to a female heir. He's the double grandfather to the king and the hand. Likewise, Cersei as Queen Regent wields a good bit of power.
Roose (and I said Ramsey before - that's the crazy bastard) may be thinking that he grabs Bran and Rickon - for leverage, if nothing else, against whomever is marrying the Stark girls - again - better to be the guardian of the legitimate male than the husband of a female heir in this system - and the bannermen, particularly might be put in check with a legitimate Stark heir in the wings.
Brandon is a cripple and to people who don't know what he can do, he might be dismissed as not really a valid candidate to be Lord of Winterfell - Rickon is still very young and Roose could expect a guardianship of 10 to 12 years, at a minimum - of a legitimate male Stark heir to Winterfell - Rickon might also be expected to be too young to appreciate the betrayal Roose inflicted on Cat and Robb.
This post was edited on 5/5/14 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:02 pm to LSUSoulja08
quote:
exactly, and I think he would have a much better chance of getting the info from bran rather than Jon
Of course, since Jon doesn't even know where either of them are anyway.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:07 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
Of course, since Jon doesn't even know where either of them are anyway.
Right - Occam's Razor suggests he was taking Bran away to interrogate him to find out where Rickon was. It is unclear if Roose wanted them back alive (and if so, why) or dead. He sent, arguably, his best man for the job. I originally thought that Locke's mission involved killing Jon Snow (as well as finding the lordlings), but, that priority was dropped when he found Brandon. The rest of his plan was...interrupted by his encounter with Master Blaster (I mean BranHodor).
This post was edited on 5/5/14 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:12 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
Of course, since Jon doesn't even know where either of them are anyway
oh shite, I was thinking of a "i'll die before I tell you" scenario with Jon rather than Bran
didn't even consider taht in my mind
ETA: I'm not even gonna edit that. Damn I need another cup of coffee
This post was edited on 5/5/14 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:20 pm to Ace Midnight
Finally was able to watch the scene. This is the dialogue word for word...
Roose Bolton looks at Locke and asks him: Are you ready for a hunt?
Locke: Always.
Roose Bolton: Find those boys and I'll give you a thousand acres and a holdfast.
Locke to Ramsay/Reek: Your pet rat have any sorts on which way they went after Winterfell?
Theon: Jon Snow is at Castle Black.
Locke: Who the frick's Jon Snow?
Roose: Their bastard brother...he could be sheltering them. He may know where they are.
Ramsay: Even if he doesn't, he's half Stark himself. Could be a threat.
Then Roose tells Ramsay to take Reek and some men and go take Moat Cailin for the family.
So based on that converstaion, it seems like Roose is indifferent on the boys being dead or alive, and his "ready for a hunt?" line, along with Ramsay's "Jon Snow could be a threat" line, lead me to believe that the Bolton camp wants them gone and Locke is to kill them.
Roose Bolton looks at Locke and asks him: Are you ready for a hunt?
Locke: Always.
Roose Bolton: Find those boys and I'll give you a thousand acres and a holdfast.
Locke to Ramsay/Reek: Your pet rat have any sorts on which way they went after Winterfell?
Theon: Jon Snow is at Castle Black.
Locke: Who the frick's Jon Snow?
Roose: Their bastard brother...he could be sheltering them. He may know where they are.
Ramsay: Even if he doesn't, he's half Stark himself. Could be a threat.
Then Roose tells Ramsay to take Reek and some men and go take Moat Cailin for the family.
So based on that converstaion, it seems like Roose is indifferent on the boys being dead or alive, and his "ready for a hunt?" line, along with Ramsay's "Jon Snow could be a threat" line, lead me to believe that the Bolton camp wants them gone and Locke is to kill them.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:30 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
So based on that converstaion, it seems like Roose is indifferent on the boys being dead or alive, and his "ready for a hunt?" line, along with Ramsay's "Jon Snow could be a threat" line, lead me to believe that the Bolton camp wants them gone and Locke is to kill them.
Oh - no question he wanted Jon killed - he's already grown - if he is able to wriggle out of his oath to the Night's Watch - he would be an immediate threat. I'm only uncertain because of the whole stewardship/mentorship - again, particularly Rickon, would be a strong hedge against the Stark bannermen/kinsmen (of which Roose was), as well as anyone married to a Stark girl in order to be Lord of Winterfell (i.e. Tyrion).
But it is reasonable to conclude that he just wants all the Starks dead - I just don't think that's the only interpretation. However, as I said, I don't question that he wanted Snow dead. Locke was just staying close until he could figure out if Jon knew where the boys were and stumbled upon Bran.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:39 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
But it is reasonable to conclude that he just wants all the Starks dead
Yeah, that's how I took that conversation to go. It just seems that all three of them were on the same page as "all Starks are threats, whether Bran/Rickon being simply alive is a threat, or Jon being grown and on the N'sW....so let's kill them all and move on."
I'm still interested to see Theon's journey (assuming he has one). It would be pretty stupid IMO if he never breaks away and is just Ramsay's peon for the rest of his life. As much as I don't really give many shits about Theon, it would be nice if he could make amends for what he's done and his character take a turn.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:43 pm to CocomoLSU
quote:
I'm still interested to see Theon's journey (assuming he has one). It would be pretty stupid IMO if he never breaks away and is just Ramsay's peon for the rest of his life. As much as I don't really give many shits about Theon, it would be nice if he could make amends for what he's done and his character take a turn.
From the previews for the next episode, Yara is coming to the rescue, so hopefully something happens with that.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:51 pm to Jet12
quote:
From the previews for the next episode, Yara is coming to the rescue, so hopefully something happens with that.
It can't be just to rescue him and return to the Iron Islands though, that would make his story line since he was captured pretty pointless other than to introduce Ramsay as the sickest bastard in Westeros. I'm guessing once Yara rescues him and he's Theon again he's going to convince Yara to help him save Bran and Rickon since he knows Locke was sent after them.
Posted on 5/5/14 at 12:56 pm to Jet12
quote:
From the previews for the next episode, Yara is coming to the rescue, so hopefully something happens with that.
Yeah, she's one that we haven't seen. Stannis has barely had screen time this season it seems.
And Rickon/Osha haven't been seen at all. Even though they're smaller characters, it seems weird that we literally haven't seen two seconds of them.
As for Yara, she had to sail literally all the way around to the other side of Westeros; I didn't realize how far away the Dreadfort was from the Iron Islands. I assume she will "save the day" so to speak, but I still would actually like to see Theon get some vengeance on Ramsay a bit. Something has to happen for Theon's whole plot to make sense.
quote:
It can't be just to rescue him and return to the Iron Islands though, that would make his story line since he was captured pretty pointless other than to introduce Ramsay as the sickest bastard in Westeros. I'm guessing once Yara rescues him and he's Theon again he's going to convince Yara to help him save Bran and Rickon since he knows Locke was sent after them.
Exactly. Something like that would be cool.
This post was edited on 5/5/14 at 12:58 pm
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