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Message
re: Why do tennis players get old faster than any other sport
Posted on 7/19/12 at 1:41 pm to Sophandros
Posted on 7/19/12 at 1:41 pm to Sophandros
hard courts kill your knees
0
Posted on 7/19/12 at 1:41 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
No one has EVER won a slam past 33. There is no outlier.
How many people have dominated football or basketball past 33?
You're making my point for me. You don't have a lot of "dominant" players in football or basketball past the age of 33.
And let's rephrase this:
For a 33 year old tennis pro, he's been a professional for 17 or 18 years.
So how many football or basketball players dominate their game in their 17th or 18th season?
Posted on 7/19/12 at 1:46 pm to Hugo Stiglitz
quote:
If you aren't at least the best (#1 ranked single player) in your state by the time you turn 17, chances are you are not going to make it as a professional tennis player
If you are still playing state tournaments and trying to garner a state ranking at 17, you basically have 0 hope of making it as a professional. If you aren't in your sectional or national top 10 or playing ITF's at 17, being a professional tennis player shouldn't even be on your radar. And that's just "being a professional tennis player"..."making it" is a different story.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 1:48 pm to GonePecan
The point that most of the worlds best tennis players usually can't make it past 30 is where the separation is. A guy will be ranked #1 in the world when he is 27 and then turn to shite and be retired by 29. It happens all the time. Guys like Agassi and Jimmy Connors lasted a little longer, but you don't see much of that.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 2:02 pm to Sophandros
quote:
You're making my point for me. You don't have a lot of "dominant" players in football or basketball past the age of 33.
Besides the hall of famers or "outliers"? There are none in tennis.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 2:07 pm to GonePecan
quote:
Besides the hall of famers or "outliers"?
Hall of Famers are, by definition, outliers.
EVERYONE'S body starts breaking down by your late 20s as an athlete.
Father Time is undefeated.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 2:11 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Father Time is undefeated.
Tell that to Paul Konerko.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 2:20 pm to GonePecan
BTW, just checking on basketball-reference.com, seeing who was leading the league in Win Shares and PER, there's only Jordan, Kareem, and Wilt (defensive WS only) who would have been considered "dominant" at or after 33.
I stand by my outlier statement.
I stand by my outlier statement.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 2:26 pm to Sophandros
Tennis is an individual sport. There are no plays off and nowhere to hide. All the other sports being mentioned are team sports. Jordan could pass to Pippen and relax for a second or he could be subbed out the game for rest. That doesn't happen in tennis.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 2:40 pm to Roscoe
quote:
If you are still playing state tournaments and trying to garner a state ranking at 17, you basically have 0 hope of making it as a professional. If you aren't in your sectional or national top 10 or playing ITF's at 17, being a professional tennis player shouldn't even be on your radar. And that's just "being a professional tennis player"..."making it" is a different story.
very true.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 3:18 pm to Sophandros
Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Bret Favre. Dominating?
Posted on 7/19/12 at 3:20 pm to GonePecan
quote:
Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Bret Favre. Dominating?
4 top ten quarterbacks in the history or the league. All of them are future Hall of Famers. Playing at a time with rules that are very friendly to quarterbacks.
Again, outliers.
And you're focusing on ONE position.
For your argument to be remotely valid, you'd have to be able to list several guys at multiple positions (RB, WR, OL, DL, LB, CB, S) who were the best in the league at or past 33.
It doesn't happen, particularly in positions that require a lot of explosiveness like RB, WR, LB, CB, and S because EVERYONE'S BODY BREAKS DOWN.
You don't need that explosive burst to be a great QB, but you do to be great at the majority of other football positions.
After 30, guys GENERALLY see a drop off there. Just as in tennis.
This post was edited on 7/19/12 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 7/19/12 at 3:37 pm to Roscoe
quote:
If you are still playing state tournaments and trying to garner a state ranking at 17, you basically have 0 hope of making it as a professional. If you aren't in your sectional or national top 10 or playing ITF's at 17, being a professional tennis player shouldn't even be on your radar. And that's just "being a professional tennis player"..."making it" is a different story.
That's kinda my point.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 3:53 pm to Sophandros
The only problem i have with you using the league avgs is that includes a lot of players that are gone in a year or 2, not because they wore down, but because they were marginal players to begin with. It still seems like there are more basketball players that are still in the elite class after 30 than tennis players, we'd need to see percentage breakdowns, there are probably more elite BB players than tennis to begin with.
I think the obvious comparision to tennis players is to RB's and CB's, both positions that flame out by 30, even for elite players. A QB that is not an outlier would be out of the league by 33 based on talent.
ETA: Federer is obviously an outlier since he's in the GOAT discussion, and he's still been elite the last few years, even though he wasn't winning majors, he was still getting to the finals or semis'. Could be as Soph said the same for all sports, just fewer tennis players
I think the obvious comparision to tennis players is to RB's and CB's, both positions that flame out by 30, even for elite players. A QB that is not an outlier would be out of the league by 33 based on talent.
ETA: Federer is obviously an outlier since he's in the GOAT discussion, and he's still been elite the last few years, even though he wasn't winning majors, he was still getting to the finals or semis'. Could be as Soph said the same for all sports, just fewer tennis players
This post was edited on 7/19/12 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 7/19/12 at 4:13 pm to Sophandros
quote:
You're making my point for me. You don't have a lot of "dominant" players in football or basketball past the age of 33
I am most certainly not making your point for you.
1) The vast majority tennis players simply fall off a cliff at age 28.
2) This doesn't happen in basketball, and there is voluminous evidence in support thereof.
Next!
Posted on 7/19/12 at 4:13 pm to Sophandros
quote:
4 top ten quarterbacks in the history or the league. All of them are future Hall of Famers. Playing at a time with rules that are very friendly to quarterbacks.
Again, outliers.
You don't know what outliers means.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 4:14 pm to Sophandros
quote:
For your argument to be remotely valid, you'd have to be able to list several guys at multiple positions (RB, WR, OL, DL, LB, CB, S) who were the best in the league at or past 33.
And you're going to say they are all outliers.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 4:16 pm to Sophandros
quote:
Says the guy who picks a smorgasbord of outliers.
You don't know what outliers means.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 4:16 pm to Sophandros
quote:
By definition, they're outliers
You don't know what outliers means.
You also don't know what definition means.
Posted on 7/19/12 at 4:19 pm to Roscoe
quote:
If you are still playing state tournaments and trying to garner a state ranking at 17, you basically have 0 hope of making it as a professional. If you aren't in your sectional or national top 10 or playing ITF's at 17, being a professional tennis player shouldn't even be on your radar. And that's just "being a professional tennis player"..."making it" is a different story.
Beat me to it.
If you don't know at 17 whether you're good enough to be a professional tennis player, then you're not good enough to be a professional tennis player.
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