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Posted on 4/3/18 at 10:50 pm to H-Town Tiger
H-Town Tiger is doing work in this thread.
Objective standards are a good thing in selection of playoff teams. Subjective standards like the “eye test” are inferior but not necessarily worthless, but when the standards differ team to team you’ve got a joke of a selection process. There should be a concerted effort to bring objective standards to the selection process.
I’ll start:
Even though people will get butthurt over the possibility of leaving out “the best team”, it would likely reduce controversy dramatically to enforce that a team must win its conference to be considered for the four team playoff.
Objective standards are a good thing in selection of playoff teams. Subjective standards like the “eye test” are inferior but not necessarily worthless, but when the standards differ team to team you’ve got a joke of a selection process. There should be a concerted effort to bring objective standards to the selection process.
I’ll start:
Even though people will get butthurt over the possibility of leaving out “the best team”, it would likely reduce controversy dramatically to enforce that a team must win its conference to be considered for the four team playoff.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 11:04 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Should Bama just go Indepenant? It seems they can't win Conferences but they can win voters Nattys.
Yeah, they can't win the conference, yet this past season was the first time they hadn't won it in 3 straight years.
This post was edited on 4/3/18 at 11:11 pm
Posted on 4/4/18 at 7:30 am to 3morereps
quote:
Ohio State- Little competition in B1G, could be interesting if Shea Patterson is cleared to play
Competition in the B1G has turned up a notch since the turn of the decade. Michigan State (2), Penn State (1) and Wisconsin (3*) have all won Championships.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 10:11 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Alabama will be in guaranteed
I wish in one of these threads, after the inevitable above statement gets posted, someone would explain to me why it is Alabama that gets extra help. Not only do they get it, but no one else does.
Why? What makes Alabama so special that they must be a protected class in the eyes of the Committee?
Posted on 4/4/18 at 10:16 am to Ross
quote:
to enforce that a team must win its conference to be considered for the four team playoff.
I will never be able to get behind this, because it allows for a one-game upset to essentially undo the year long resume people have worked for. I mentioned it in another thread but you could have a mediocre 8-4 division winner pull off a major upset of their 12-0 counterpart. We're going to send the 9-4 team to the playoffs simply becuase they won their conference? What about the 12-1 team taht was likely ranked in the top 2, are they just out completely because they didn't win the conferece?
I agree the "eye test" can be all over the map but I have having hard and fast rules like "must win your conference".
Posted on 4/4/18 at 10:27 am to WG_Dawg
The standard answer for that would be increased playoff participants. Ok, so to how many? Is there usually a huge gap in say the 6th and 7th team in the country? What about the 8th and 9th? Do the top teams get byes? Where are the extra games played? Do conference championship matter in seeding or just an automatic bid?
Posted on 4/4/18 at 10:30 am to Patton
I don't think we need to expand either, 4 is perfect IMO. If after 13 games you are ranked 5th you've probably done something to exclude yourself. I've said for a while I wouldn't mind just keeping a BCS-style formula and taking the top 4 teams.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 10:34 am to WG_Dawg
I think removing the human element might make people happier, but when Alabama keeps making it every year what will they complain about?
Posted on 4/4/18 at 11:57 am to Patton
quote:
I think removing the human element might make people happier, but when Alabama keeps making it every year what will they complain about?
As long as saban is there they will be likely to make it in anyway, regardless of how the process is structured. I mean hell even last year when there was so much whining about bama not winning their division, all it would have taken is ohio state to simply not get pantsed by iowa. Even with 2 losses, 1 to a bad team, they STILL would have made it in over bama if they hadn't gotten obliterated. That's not the committees fault or ESPN's fault.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 12:11 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Even with 2 losses, 1 to a bad team, they STILL would have made it in over bama if they hadn't gotten obliterated. That's not the committees fault or ESPN's fault.
I agree. If they lose to Iowa by 3 instead of 31, Ohio State is in.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 3:10 pm to Patton
quote:
I wish in one of these threads, after the inevitable above statement gets posted, someone would explain to me why it is Alabama that gets extra help. Not only do they get it, but no one else does.
Why? What makes Alabama so special that they must be a protected class in the eyes of the Committee?
I mean they didn't have 1 good win on the season.
The chair of the committee said this before conference championship games were played:
quote:
"Reflecting on the discussions over the last two days, obviously there's three spots that separate them right there, but it's close separation from team No. 5, Alabama; 6, Georgia; 7, Miami; 8, Ohio State," Hocutt said. "Those teams are close. Very little separation in the committee's eyes between teams 5 through 8."
So, you don't have to be a genius to see that before any conference title games were played the committee had OSU/Bama close. That's just literally what the chair said
What happened following that quote? Auburn lost, so Bama's resume got worse, Fresno St. lost, so Bama's resume got worse. Ohio State beat a top 5 Wisconsin so OSU's resume improved.
If you didn't put names next to the two teams, and called them Team A and Team D
Teams A and D are close
2 things happened that make Team A's resume look worse
1 thing happens that makes Team D's resume look better
A neutral party listening to what was said and taking the information into account would probably say that team D had passed team A.
When you put the Bama name into it, it had an impact. Or, the chair of the committee didn't have a pulse on the other members the week of CCGs.
Either way, it seemed suspect with that quote IMO. OSU wasn't winning last year likely
Posted on 4/4/18 at 5:36 pm to 3morereps
Bama
Georgia
Oklahoma
Clemson
Yep.
Georgia
Oklahoma
Clemson
Yep.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 9:13 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
So, you don't have to be a genius to see that before any conference title games were played the committee had OSU/Bama close. That's just literally what the chair said
What happened following that quote? Auburn lost, so Bama's resume got worse, Fresno St. lost, so Bama's resume got worse. Ohio State beat a top 5 Wisconsin so OSU's resume improved.
If you didn't put names next to the two teams, and called them Team A and Team D
Teams A and D are close
2 things happened that make Team A's resume look worse
1 thing happens that makes Team D's resume look better
A neutral party listening to what was said and taking the information into account would probably say that team D had passed team A.
When you put the Bama name into it, it had an impact. Or, the chair of the committee didn't have a pulse on the other members the week of CCGs.
Either way, it seemed suspect with that quote IMO. OSU wasn't winning last year likely
You didn’t even attempt to answer the questions I asked which you quoted and responded too.
Posted on 4/4/18 at 9:43 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Clearly you do not....
Clearly I do. As I've already said, your point is just completely terrible.
quote:
my point is you can’t use the results to justify the selection, that’s circular logic, 20/20 hindsight.
Direct quote from you earlier in this thread attempting to justify USC being selected last year:
"Their record in bowl games and against ranked teams indicates otherwise."
Let me know when you get off that circular logic merry-go-round.
quote:
so you can’t use it to justify the selection. Justify the selection on the infonwe had BEFORE the playoffs.
You can keep telling yourself that, it just isn't true.
quote:
Correct, it’s my opinion that the standard should be most deserving rather than best because deserving can be somewhat quantified and applies the same to all.
No, it's just the standard you think/hope has the highest probability of keeping Alabama out of the playoffs.
quote:
Win your conference or at least division and have the better schedule.
And when a 3-4 loss team from a shitty division happens to beat an undefeated team in a conference championship game, you're argument says they will "deserve" to make the playoffs. You have fun with that. I'll keep with the system that is trying to name the best team.
quote:
IMO it's better than just saying "best" which is generally 100% opinion
It's no more or less opinion than "deserving" is. It's your opinion that a conference championship automatically equals most deserving.
quote:
There are many times when the "best" team didn't win the championship.
There are many teams when the "most deserving" team didn't win the championship. What's your point?
Posted on 4/4/18 at 10:13 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
No, that’s just your view as a typical insecure Alabama fan (on display thru out your response re UCS).
Go ahead and link any post of mine that shows me to be an Alabama fan.
quote:
This is also a cop out as you just dismiss any argument against Alabama but simply saying the non Bama fan is “obsessed” or “jealous” or whatever anything to avoid the actual argument.
No, you choosing to apply your standards to Alabama while ignoring that Ohio st failed to meet those same standards the year before is what dismisses your argument.
quote:
Well we weren’t talking about Ohio State
We weren't talking about Alabama until you brought them up, completely unprovoked, in the 5th post in this thread. Where you said this:
"Alabama will be in guaranteed, we've seen in 2011 and again last year no matter what happens during the season the "eyeball" test will get them a pass."
That's it, just Alabama. No ohio st in 2016. No florda state in 2000. Only Alabama.
But you keep on telling yourself none of this has anything to do with you being a typical lsu fan obsessed with Alabama.
quote:
And if you think it should be “best” teams, who was playing better than USC at the end of 2016? Should they have been in?
I wasn't aware that the best teams only played well the last month of the season. And a 35 point loss just doesn't count at all. Can you show me where that stipulation is?
quote:
ETA: tOSU did not get in the 2015 CFB if we’re going eyeball test or best teams clearly they should have been in, so no they don’t get the same special treatment
Ohio st got in the playoff in 2016 over a team that beat them head to head, won their division, and won their conference. That violates every possible notion of "deserve" that you continue to bring up. And that's not special treatment? Oh no, you're not a typical lsu fan that's just obsssed with hating Alabama. Not at all.
quote:
Again we see the one with the obsession is you.
Go reread your last statement about Ohio st. You're a joke.
quote:
Repeating a false assumption multiple times doesn’t make it true.
Claiming something is a false assumption while repeatedly saying and doing things that prove that assumption true doesn't make it a false assumption.
quote:
But This also shows you really don’t get the point and just want to whine about someone daring to say Alabama gets special treatment.
No. It shows that you don't even believe your own completely terrible "point" because of don't apply the standards you're setting to prove your "point" the same to all possible teams involved.
quote:
If you get past your obsession here I was talking about the SCHEDULE. And while yes 2016 tOSU got into the playoffs (just to be clear I don’t think they should have) without winning their division just like 2017 Alabama the respective schedules were not the same. 16 Ohio State was 3-1 vs top 10 (final playoff rankings) 17 Bama was 0-1. The 16 B1GE was better than the 17 SECW
If you got past your obsession you would understand that a team can be one of the best teams in the country without playing the most difficult schedule. And while you sit here again justifying your continued failure to apply your standards evenly to both Alabama and Ohio st, I'll remind you that your complaints about 2011 and 2017 Alabama are that:
1. They didn't win their conference. Ohio st was in the same conference that Penn st won in 2017. Ohio st went to the playoffs.
2. They didn't win their division. Ohio st was in the same division that penn st won in 2017. Ohio st went to the playoffs.
3. They got a "do-over" rendering a regular season game meaningless. Ohio st lost to penn st in the 2017 regular season. Ohio st went to the playoffs. They completely skipped the "do-over"
Posted on 4/4/18 at 10:21 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
No it’s resume, ie something they actually did,
So you're really arguing a 40 point loss to an unranked team is just numbers on a page, the same as a 3 point loss? And doesn't factor into the "eyeball test" you keep saying people use to determine the best teams?
I mean do you seriously believe the shite you're typing right now?
quote:
I’ve covered this but again here is 20/20 hindsight. We can’t possibly know the results of the playoffs when picking the teams for the playoffs. My argument is the same before and after.
You're not supposed to know the results of the playoffs when picking the teams. That's why the pkayoffs exist. What are you even trying to argue?
quote:
It means their schedule wasn’t that difficult. Their SEC East opponents were 1-15 in the SEC which is 0-14 excluding their game against each other.
And?
Posted on 4/4/18 at 10:32 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
The thread was about playoffs and chances.
Yes. So what do bcs games have to do with that?
quote:
And the fact is...some clown said USC choked in the post-season.
No. The fact is I said maybe Pete Carroll and USC would've had more epic choke jobs if they were given second chances. You know, since the reason they needed those second chances was usually due to said epic choke jobs.
quote:
When they were 6 out of 7 in BCS games.
1-1*, really 0-1 in championship games. And that 1 in the loss column came directly after they were named the greatest team of all time. Aka, epic choke job.
quote:
So chances are if USC was given more chances and do-overs, they probably would be like Alabama today.
No, chances aren't. You, me, nobody else knows what would've happened. There is evidence to support both sides.
quote:
Once they got in the game, USC rocked.
Greatest team of all time, 0-1 in national championship games.
quote:
And the premise was that Bama has proved their inclusion in the playoffs.
And that premise has been proven valid.
quote:
Shite, a lot of teams could prove their inclusion in a two-game playoff. It's all about opportunity and second-chances. Bama has proved the regular season doesn't matter. Which is the lost charm of college football...that the regular season is the playoff.
Trivia: Before Alabama there was another team that got a "second-chance" in the college football playoff. What team was it, and what did they do with that chance?
This post was edited on 4/4/18 at 10:38 pm
Posted on 4/5/18 at 7:51 am to Patton
I mean if you need it more spelled out for you. Bama gets help because they have shown the best results over the last decade. The committee says they don’t take past results into account but that’s obviously not true.
No one else gets the “help” as you say but it’s really a “benefit of the doubt” when there are teams somewhat close. Bama absolutely got help last year and in 2011. The media pushed them into the 2011 game when they had bedlam commercials saying it was for the big 12 title and not for a spot in the title game. Last year they got help with a bad resume bc of past results. No one else has that past resume to get help
No one else gets the “help” as you say but it’s really a “benefit of the doubt” when there are teams somewhat close. Bama absolutely got help last year and in 2011. The media pushed them into the 2011 game when they had bedlam commercials saying it was for the big 12 title and not for a spot in the title game. Last year they got help with a bad resume bc of past results. No one else has that past resume to get help
Posted on 4/5/18 at 8:16 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Clemson will have an NFL DL, and (if Dabo has the stones to do what Saban did) will have added arguably the best QB recruit of the last decade to our offense.
Absolutely will be a playoff team.
Absolutely will be a playoff team.
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