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re: The Cavs PnR Problem
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:42 am to buckeye_vol
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:42 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
And the sample of the article that led to your thread is the same as the sample your criticizing minus two games.
And????? Is THAT not incredibly alarming to you that you are conceding those teams are kinda easy in comparison and Love/Kyrie did that poorly?
Now you are about to play the BEST PnR ball handler in the league. What exactly is your point here lol. The issues those two sources point out aren't just something you can hand wave away.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 12:45 am
2
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:45 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:You're the one being ridiculous.
You Cavs fans are ridiculous. I kinda want to see CLE get a ring but you guys make me almost want to root for GS out of annoyance. Talking about Frye, Jefferson, Shumpert and Delly like they are the 2013 Spurs bench or something. They have strengths and weaknesses and have benefitted from an easy path to the finals you all are WAAAAYYY overvaluing.
You've created a strawman here. The argument that Cavs second unit was dominating in the playoffs, and may have advantage, and somehow you're turned this into some argument implying that the Warriors second team isn't good. Nobody thinks that, BUT the Cavs could have an advantage IF they continue to play like they have in the playoffs.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:47 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:My point is that if you're going to dismiss an argument based on the sample size, then it's hackish to argue something based on an even smaller sample.
And????? Is THAT not incredibly alarming to you that you are conceding those teams are kinda easy in comparison and Love/Kyrie did that poorly?
I don't have a problem with either argument BUT your hypocrisy is blatant.
You're misinterpreting a lot of posts in this thread.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 12:48 am
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:50 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
You're the one being ridiculous.
You've created a strawman here. The argument that Cavs second unit was dominating in the playoffs, and may have advantage, and somehow you're turned this into some argument implying that the Warriors second team isn't good. Nobody thinks that, BUT the Cavs could have an advantage IF they continue to play like they have in the playoffs.
No I am pushing back against the nonsense people keep spouting that the Warriors bench isn't that impressive.
In terms of lineup integration the Warriors win that argument. In terms of player for player evaluation they win and in terms of synergy I would tip my hat to the Warriors this series.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:55 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
My point is that if you're going to dismiss an argument based on the sample size, then it's hackish to argue something based on an even smaller sample.
I don't have a problem with either argument BUT your hypocrisy is blatant.
You're misinterpreting a lot of posts in this thread.
I'm not dismissing the sample size, I'm saying it is unwise and ridiculous to use it as an anchoring argument that the Cavs will be a superior bench unit when the competition level inflates their output.
What Kyrie/Love have struggled with in PnR is something that stems back to the regular season and their entire careers TBH. The fact they still struggled so hard against less efficient PnR teams then what the Warriors will field is a worrying factor.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:55 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:It is impressive. You're the one making up this strawman that people don't believe it's impressive.
I am pushing back against the nonsense people keep spouting that the Warriors bench isn't that impressive.
quote:Sure. BUT if the Cavs second unit plays as well as they've been playing then they can negate the second unit advantage that the Warriors have. It's not some certainty, but it's a possibility.
In terms of lineup integration the Warriors win that argument. In terms of player for player evaluation they win and in terms of synergy I would tip my hat to the Warriors this series.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 12:57 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:It is troubling. BUT it's not like they were playing some scrubs and now they are playing the dream team.
The fact they still struggled so hard against less efficient PnR teams then what the Warriors will field is a worrying factor
It's a disadvantage, so they'll have to make up for it elsewhere and hope they can make at least some minor improvements.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:02 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
It is impressive. You're the one making up this strawman that people don't believe it's impressive.
Tell that Javzz.
quote:
Sure. BUT if the Cavs second unit plays as well as they've been playing then they can negate the second unit advantage that the Warriors have. It's not some certainty, but it's a possibility.
Again, this is the fracking point, it is ridiculous to think the Cavs unit is going to perform like that over 7 games. Post an eFG% of 72 against the Warriors. Its delusional barring severe injury or suspensions.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:09 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
t is troubling. BUT it's not like they were playing some scrubs and now they are playing the dream team.
It's a disadvantage, so they'll have to make up for it elsewhere and hope they can make at least some minor improvements.
The competition was not that great. And in terms of PnR efficiency, Curry is kinda the dream team. He is the best in the league as a PnR ball handler.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 1:10 am
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:15 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:It wasn't horrible. OKC aside, the Warriors have had even lesser completion in the playoffs this season.
The competition was not that great.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:22 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
It wasn't horrible. OKC aside, the Warriors have had even lesser completion in the playoffs this season.
The Rockets sure, Portland I would say they played better then Atlanta did at that point. But yeah, take away the team that beat a historically great Spurs and took the Warriors to 7 games and the Warriors competition doesn't look that bad
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 1:24 am
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:28 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:Atlanta was a better team than Portland by nearly every metric.
Portland I would say they played better then Atlanta did at that point.
quote:Obviously GSW's path was harder because or OKC, but since the Cavs played better teams in the first two rounds, then you should stop with the hack arguments about the crappy teams.
But yeah, take away the team that beat a historically great Spurs and took the Warriors to 7 games and the Warriors competition doesn't look that bad
Posted on 6/2/16 at 1:46 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
Atlanta was a better team than Portland by nearly every metric.
This is getting old. Im not even sure what the point of this whole exercise is? Is there some overall point? Can you please get to it?
The Cavs bench was atrocious until the playoffs. LINK
They then had a handful of great games against a Detroit team with an abysmal bench, an Atlanta team with one great bench player and a hobbled Raptors.
The Cavs bench also lacks two way players so they have to continuously pick their poisons. They didn't have to worry about that as much because they didn't play anyone on the level of OKC or GS. People championing a 72 eFG% as an indicator of the Cavs finals possible output are deluding themselves. The Cavs have had an easy path to the finals, they haven't been tested, their bench has not met anything close to what GS will put out.
Can you please get to making a point that has some value besides going back and forth with this whole, I think X was slightly better then Y and I want to ignore Z completely because it hurts my arguments.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 1:50 am
Posted on 6/2/16 at 4:37 am to NOLA Bronco
This is the stat that i think everyhting comes down to and why everyone says the cavs beat up on no one
counting the last 5 years, the number of games the teams that each team beat won in the Conference Finals + NBA finals
Warriors:
- Houston (1)
- Portland (0)
- OKC (7)
Cavs
- Detroit (0)
- Atlanta (0)
- Toronto (0)
counting the last 5 years, the number of games the teams that each team beat won in the Conference Finals + NBA finals
Warriors:
- Houston (1)
- Portland (0)
- OKC (7)
Cavs
- Detroit (0)
- Atlanta (0)
- Toronto (0)
Posted on 6/2/16 at 7:02 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:Are you really unable to understand the point? I'm not saying Cleveland's bench is better, BUT they've been playing better as of late AND that could present opportunity to gain of advantage of this maintains. Your interpretation/extrapolation of arguments is baffling.
Can you please get to making a point that has some value besides going back and forth with this whole, I think X was slightly better then Y and I want to ignore Z completely because it hurts my arguments.
This post was edited on 6/2/16 at 7:03 am
Posted on 6/2/16 at 7:06 am to vengeanceofrain
quote:What?
counting the last 5 years, the number of games the teams that each team beat won in the Conference Finals + NBA finals
Posted on 6/2/16 at 7:39 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:
You Cavs fans are ridiculous. I kinda want to see CLE get a ring but you guys make me almost want to root for GS out of annoyance.
You are off your rocker man. If you can't engage in discussion without being annoyed then why have you continued to reply? It's not that serious.
quote:
it is ridiculous to think the Cavs unit is going to perform like that over 7 games. Post an eFG% of 72 against the Warriors. Its delusional barring severe injury or suspensions.
No one said they would. If you look back to the original post about this question and before your edit, you asked what made that unit incredible, the answer was given and you got all insecure as if someone said Cavs in 4. Then you proceeded to talk about competition which is a lame argument.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 7:43 am to NOLA Bronco
quote:
You Cavs fans are ridiculous. I kinda want to see CLE get a ring but you guys make me almost want to root for GS out of annoyance. Talking about Frye, Jefferson, Shumpert and Delly like they are the 2013 Spurs bench or something.
13saint or somebody has been talking about them like a lineup of death. Posted on 6/2/16 at 7:45 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
13saint or somebody has been talking about them like a lineup of death.
No I haven't. Guess it's cool to lie.
Posted on 6/2/16 at 8:13 am to NOLA Bronco
I haven't once touted that line up as a counter to the Warriors small ball line up. I even said you might be able to get away with playing it once in crunch time.
If the Warriors counter that line up by playing their death line up they're messing with their rotations considerably, which is all I've said. I agree the Warriors have more line up adjustments with their personnel. Which is what I said as their strength. The Cavs are just the deepest team they've played this far, and based on Lue's adjustments can push them in that regard more than any other team.
What's the point of making any analytical argument to you if you'll just counter with "shitty east". But then bring up fricking ridiculously one-dimensional Portland.
If the Warriors counter that line up by playing their death line up they're messing with their rotations considerably, which is all I've said. I agree the Warriors have more line up adjustments with their personnel. Which is what I said as their strength. The Cavs are just the deepest team they've played this far, and based on Lue's adjustments can push them in that regard more than any other team.
What's the point of making any analytical argument to you if you'll just counter with "shitty east". But then bring up fricking ridiculously one-dimensional Portland.
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