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re: Sobering thought about Eli Manning's Career (assuming he stays healthy)
Posted on 12/15/15 at 10:16 am to StrongBackWeakMind
Posted on 12/15/15 at 10:16 am to StrongBackWeakMind
How many superbowls have those guys got and how many superbowl mvp's?
1
Posted on 12/15/15 at 10:20 am to ELVIS U
quote:Zero.
How many superbowls have those guys got and how many superbowl mvp's?
We have a different mentality when it comes to the HOF. You and others think SB wins are all that matters. I and others think it should be how you stack up against your peers.
SB wins are not the end all be all, IMO. Unfortunately, the HOF committee sides with you.
This post was edited on 12/15/15 at 10:21 am
Posted on 12/15/15 at 10:23 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:Most of his peers have not led their team to two Super Bowl wins
I and others think it should be how you stack up against your peers.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 10:24 am to genro
quote:True.
Most of his peers have not led their team to two Super Bowl wins
Doesn't take away from the fact that he has never been the best of the best.
ETA: As stated above, you and others think SB wins are all that matters. I think differently.
This post was edited on 12/15/15 at 10:26 am
Posted on 12/15/15 at 10:26 am to StrongBackWeakMind
Nor had Bradshaw and he was first ballot.
Fran Tarkenton and Marino had been the best but had they no Super Bowls and they got in too.
I'm okay with that. Either way is fine. I think both situations are extremely impressive, commendable, and worthy of the Hall
Fran Tarkenton and Marino had been the best but had they no Super Bowls and they got in too.
I'm okay with that. Either way is fine. I think both situations are extremely impressive, commendable, and worthy of the Hall
This post was edited on 12/15/15 at 10:28 am
Posted on 12/15/15 at 10:29 am to genro
Agree to disagree.
I don't think mediocre seasonal numbers plus 2 SB wins should be enough, but it will.
I don't think mediocre seasonal numbers plus 2 SB wins should be enough, but it will.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 10:36 am to StrongBackWeakMind
I'll take a mediocre qb who wins in the playoffs over a stat padder who chokes. If i was picking for my team. Any day of the week.
This post was edited on 12/15/15 at 10:36 am
Posted on 12/15/15 at 11:13 am to genro
Eli Manning going into the Pro Football Hall of Fame isnt even debatable.
He is without question one of the 20 best QB's in NFL history and his statistics + 2 SB MVP awards already put him ahead of just about EVERY quarterback currently in the Hall of Fame.
He's playing in an era where he is overshadowed by some of the all-time greats- Brady, Brees, and his brother.
He is a Hall of Fame lock and I would be shocked if he wasnt a first-ballot HoF'er.
He is without question one of the 20 best QB's in NFL history and his statistics + 2 SB MVP awards already put him ahead of just about EVERY quarterback currently in the Hall of Fame.
He's playing in an era where he is overshadowed by some of the all-time greats- Brady, Brees, and his brother.
He is a Hall of Fame lock and I would be shocked if he wasnt a first-ballot HoF'er.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 11:23 am to CBandits82
quote:
at any point in his career has he been amongst the best or best at the position? Not at all.
In his era:
Brady better
Rodgers better
Brees better
Peyton better
He's not even in the top of his era.
He shouldn't be in.
Those 4 guys are going to go down as 4 of the best ever. They will likely be in the top 10 all time.
Why does he need to be the best at his position?
Was Reggie Miller ever the best at his position While MJ, Drexler and then Kobe were running around? Hell Drexler was never the best at his position.
Was Chris Carter, James Lofton, Andre Reed, Art Monk, or Micheal Irvin ever the best at their position while Jerry Rice was running around?
Jerome Bettis, Curtis Martin, Thurman Thomas, best at their position? Give me a break
Warren Moon, Aikman, Jim Kelly, Marino, Young, Montana, Elway all played in the same era, sort of. All ended their career last century. There hasn't been a QB selected that has played in this century yet. There's only two QB's that played in the little era between the ones i just listed and the new crop of Brady/Brees/Manning/Rodgers, and that's Favre and Kurt Warner, and after they get in this year, there won't be a qb getting selected for at minimum 5 more years, assuming Peyton retires this year, and after Peyton, we'll be waiting 5 years after Brady/Brees retires.
There hasn't been a qb selected in 10 years!!!
We will go about 20 years with only 2 QB's (assuming Kurt Warner gets in, which he should) making the HOF before the influx of Brady/Manning/Brees/Ben/Eli/Rodgers start getting in.
Eli has played on crappy teams, much like Rivers has, and have both made the playoffs the same amount of times, yet Eli has two of the best super bowl performances ever.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 11:30 am to genro
quote:
There is something to be said about being consistently productive for two decades
In baseball HoF discussions, guys like this are called 'compilers'. Interesting.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 11:47 am to Volmanac
quote:Actually that's how Tarkenton got in
Career bulk stats mean jack shite
IMHO Eli is better than Tarkenton, Bradshaw, or Aikman, all of whom are in the HOF.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:06 pm to Kafka
It's called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Best Players or Hall of Stats.
There are plenty of ways to be deserving of the Hall. Stats are good. Team leader accomplishments are good too. It's always been that way in every sports hall, it's only now that the statheads want to change the criteria.
There are plenty of ways to be deserving of the Hall. Stats are good. Team leader accomplishments are good too. It's always been that way in every sports hall, it's only now that the statheads want to change the criteria.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:10 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
. You and others think SB wins are all that matters. I and others think it should be how you stack up against your peers.
I just find it illogical that two games are the reason Eli is going to easily get in the HOF.
Putting so much emphasis on two games in a career that will stretch over 200 games seems foolish. If Eli loses those two SBs, are you putting him in the HOF?
I understand you cannot take them away from him - he played very well and earned the MVP in both of them - but if he isn't a HOF QB for the other 189 games, why does winning two games change that?
His two SBs and SB MVPs should be celebrated in Canton, but I'm not convinced that Eli deserves to be enshrined.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:18 pm to slackster
You make it sound like he was just dropped into those games. He was there the whole way, he got them there
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:21 pm to BadTyreke
quote:
I personally think Eli is criminally underrated. He checks in at number 3 on my top QB's of all-time list. He really should be at number 2, but I downgraded him due to him playing for the cradle of filth known as Ole Miss in college
Wow, you're dumb
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:24 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
What website is this you're using?
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:29 pm to slackster
quote:
If Eli loses those two SBs, are you putting him in the HOF?
I understand you cannot take them away from him - he played very well and earned the MVP in both of them - but if he isn't a HOF QB for the other 189 games, why does winning two games change that?
Jim Kelly made the hall and he didn't win one.
His stats are no different than Donovan McNabb's, they are almost identical, games, yards(McNabb had more rushing yards and a good bit less ints), TDs, QB rating, both had the 2nd or 3rd best team in the NFL 4 years in row and coudln't win a super bowl.
Shouldn't McNabb make the Hall just as easy as Kelly did?
When you are the QB and led your team to a superbowl, you are usually a pretty damn good qb. Do it twice and you've reached an elite level and showed it wasn't a fluke the first time.
Eli is much better than both of them. Kelly threw 2 Super Bowl TD's and 7 INTs. When was he a HOF QB?
Posted on 12/15/15 at 12:53 pm to genro
quote:
You make it sound like he was just dropped into those games. He was there the whole way, he got them there
That isn't my intention.
Perhaps I'm giving the HOF too much credit. I'd like to think that a HOF QB is a guy who you easily spot as one of the best QBs to play the game during his era. Eli doesn't fit that bill outside of two 4-game stretches in 2007 and 2011, and I'm being incredibly generous for 2007.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 1:22 pm to slackster
quote:
Eli doesn't fit that bill outside of two 4-game stretches in 2007 and 2011, and I'm being incredibly generous for 2007.
show me when Warren Moon was a Hall of Fame QB.
To me he's comparable to the Chang kid from Hawaii.
You'd rather Warren Moon career over Eli's?
Moon isn't in the top 50 in qb rating or TD-INT ratio. He was the product of a system, a system that had nothing to show for it, much like the Hawaii/Texas Tech/Houston type QB's in NCAA.
If Warren Moon and Jim Kelly are good enough to make it, then Rivers/McNabb/Romo should make it too with Eli walking over them to get in.
Posted on 12/15/15 at 1:24 pm to CocoLoco
quote:Pro Football Reference and Excel.
What website is this you're using?
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