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re: Phil Jackson says Lakers dynasty broke up because of Shaq's 'clown role'
Posted on 3/2/14 at 10:34 pm to Goldrush25
Posted on 3/2/14 at 10:34 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
I thought the statement was axiomatic. When you take everything that is Michael Jordan, copy it, and try to pass it off as your own, you don't really ever deserve to be in a "who's better" comparison. He's the GOAT copycat, but his legacy is the legacy of a copycat.
That is an absolutely ridiculous way to look at it. Why on earth should Kobe's legacy take any hit at all because of this?
Posted on 3/3/14 at 4:55 am to Zamoro10
quote:
Shaq's clown role was being unstoppable down low during the title years.
Kobe's clown role was shooting airballs for the last shot when winning big time was on the line.
The Kobe hate is just bizarre.
Phil Jackson holds no punches as to why Shaq & Kobe weren' t even more successful/longer & lays the blame squarely on Shaw. Yet those who hate Kobe can't accept even Phil Jackson's word(unless he is criticizing Kobe).
Shaq burned bridges at every franchise he played & had small public feuds with Pat Riley, Wade, Penny,etc......among others. But Kobe is easier to attack I guess.
I'll take Phil's word over guys on the internet who are blinded by this obssessive hate of Kobe.
I always thought Kobe /Duncan could have done far more damage for much longer than Shaq/Kobe being they are both serious minded players(Duncan better defender than Shaq).
Posted on 3/3/14 at 8:27 am to sugar71
quote:
hil Jackson holds no punches as to why Shaq & Kobe weren' t even more successful/longer & lays the blame squarely on Shaw.
Uh no. He puts a lot of blame on Kobe
Posted on 3/3/14 at 8:30 am to sugar71
quote:
I'll take Phil's word over guys on the internet who are blinded by this obssessive hate of Kobe.
Phil's word:
quote:
“I was at a motel in Williston, North Dakota, when the call came from Mitch. “You’re not going to believe this,” he said, telling me about Kobe and the rape allegations in Colorado. Was I surprised? Yes, but not entirely. Kobe can be consumed with surprising anger, which he’s displayed toward me and toward his teammates.”
quote:
“The thing that hurts us about this season,” Fox said, “is that both of you have acted like you’re apart from us, and that we’re not any good. We have won championships for each other, sacrificing, and all of a sudden, you turn your backs on us.” Shaq, clearly affected, began to respond when Kobe cut him off. “Quit your crying,” Kobe said. I then jumped in. “Kobe, you’re as much to blame as Shaq is, if not more.” “You’re the one who should f***ing talk,” he said. “You said I sabotaged games.”
quote:
“Why don’t the two get along? I have my theories, one of which is that Shaquille is making the type of money, about $25 million a year, that Kobe will never earn due to the changes in the league’s collective bargaining agreement. No matter how many MVP trophies Kobe might collect in the decade ahead, there is nothing he can do about this discrepancy. In fact, the word I got was that Kobe was the only player in the entire league who voted against the agreement because of the cap it put on salaries.”
quote:
“This was another example of the basic difference between him and Kobe. Ask Shaq to do something and he’ll say: “No, I don’t want to do that.” But after a little pouting, he will do it. Ask Kobe, and he’ll say “okay,” and then he will do whatever he wants.”
quote:
“Kobe’s defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league’s all-defensive team. The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn’t played sound, fundamental defense. Mesmerized by the ball, he’s gambled too frequently, putting us out of position, forcing rotations that leave a man wide open, and doesn’t keep his feet on the ground.”
quote:
“After the gun sounded, Kobe went over to Devean, berating him for not calling timeout when the play broke down. Kobe was right but he was wrong to reprimand his teammate on the court, in front of the crowd and the cameras.”
“Worse yet, Kobe and I had gotten into it earlier in the game after he threw a poor pass that Anthony stole, resulting in a Denver layup. “You can’t make that pass,’ I told Kobe when he came off the floor in the next timeout. “Well, you better teach those motherf***ers how to run the offense,” he said. I sat him down on the spot. “Watch your mouth,” I said.
quote:
“Strangely enough, despite the well-documented squabbles, I can recall only one altercation during my four and a half years here, in February 2002, between Kobe and Samaki Walker, that left Samaki with a swollen eye.”
quote:
“I won’t coach this team next year if he is still here,” I said emphatically. “He won’t listen to anyone. I’ve had it with this kid.” My monologue-Mitch barely said a word at first-reminded me of similar eruption in the middle of my first year when I presented what I thought was a very logical argument for trading Kobe at that time. “Everyone says what a mature person this kid is,” I said. “He’s not mature at all.” The deal I had in mind was Kobe to Phoenix for Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion.”
quote:
“Are you feeling like you’re going to come back next year?” Jeanie asked me. “Well, not if Kobe Bryant is on this team next year,” I told her. “He’s too complex a person. I don’t need this.”
This post was edited on 3/3/14 at 8:32 am
Posted on 3/3/14 at 8:51 am to TigerBait1127
Sounds like Phil needed to go rip the bong a few times and chill the frick out
Posted on 3/3/14 at 8:51 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
“You can’t make that pass,’ I told Kobe when he came off the floor in the next timeout. “Well, you better teach those motherf***ers how to run the offense,”
Posted on 3/3/14 at 8:59 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
Kobe can be consumed with surprising anger, which he’s displayed toward me and toward his teammates.”
Replace Kobe with Jordan here, and you still have a truthful statement.
quote:
“Quit your crying,” Kobe said.
Same thing. Jordan said shite like this all the time.
abnd so on and so on. A lot of the greats have been dicks to teammates. Not every one of them gets a book written about it, though.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 9:04 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
“Are you feeling like you’re going to come back next year?” Jeanie asked me. “Well, not if Kobe Bryant is on this team next year,” I told her. “He’s too complex a person. I don’t need this.”
And yet 5 years later
Kobe is like a son to PJax now.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 9:05 am to NorthGAVol
I'm sure Phil hated working with Kobe, Shaq and Jordan since they were all big egos.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 9:05 am to cas4t
quote:
Same thing. Jordan said shite like this all the time. abnd so on and so on. A lot of the greats have been dicks to teammates. Not every one of them gets a book written about it, though.
Didn't Jordan punch Steve Kerr for missing a shot in a Bulls practice/scrimmage?
Posted on 3/3/14 at 9:11 am to NorthGAVol
I remember reading that a few years ago. MJ was a frickin dick to his teammates.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 9:12 am to cas4t
I love Kobe. It's silly to say the blame lies solely on Shaq or Kobe like sugar implied
Posted on 3/3/14 at 9:35 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
It's silly to say the blame lies solely on Shaq or Kobe like sugar implied
I completely agree. That fall out was mutual. Kobe was a dick, Shaq was a lazy frick who would show up out of shape. They clashed. End of story.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 9:44 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
“Are you feeling like you’re going to come back next year?” Jeanie asked me. “Well, not if Kobe Bryant is on this team next year,” I told her. “He’s too complex a person. I don’t need this.”
Yea and then what happened?
ETA: yep. See NorthGAVol's post above
This post was edited on 3/3/14 at 9:45 am
Posted on 3/3/14 at 9:54 am to PhiTiger1764
No way he matured at all?
Posted on 3/3/14 at 10:20 am to PhiTiger1764
quote:
That is an absolutely ridiculous way to look at it. Why on earth should Kobe's legacy take any hit at all because of this?
I believe part of a HOFer's greatness should be what that player brought to the game and how they changed the game. I just don't think Kobe did anything to revolutionize the game of basketball. He just did a great MJ impression, which of course is damn impressive, but he didn't change shite. He just emulated something that had already been done. That's just my opinion. He's a HOF player but not in the GOAT discussion.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 10:23 am to Goldrush25
quote:
I just don't think Kobe did anything to revolutionize the game of basketball
well, you must not know much about basketball.
Posted on 3/3/14 at 10:44 am to cas4t
quote:
I just don't think Kobe did anything to revolutionize the game of basketball.
Disagree here. It was Kobe who started the straight to the NBA from high school revolution. Kobe made that the cool thing to do.
The 1 and done rule was put in place and the currently being debated 2 year rule.. This all came about because of what Kobe started.
He changed the game.
ETA: I'm sure someone will call me out and say Kevin Garnett started this but I think Kobe played just as big a role here
This post was edited on 3/3/14 at 10:54 am
Posted on 3/3/14 at 10:57 am to TigerBait1127
quote:
I love Kobe. It's silly to say the blame lies solely on Shaq or Kobe like sugar implied
Well replace 'mostly' on Shaq & not 'squarely'. Sorry that I look at a pattern of Shaq immature spats with teammates /executives & burning bridges wherever he goes.
1)Burned bridges in Orlando & didn' t get along with Penny.
2)Didn't get along with Van Exel nor Eddie Jones of all people & Jones even admitted he asked to be traded a lot due to Shaq's immaturity.(He went on to trash Jones publicly).
3)Publicly cursed out Dr Buss "Pay me my f'ing" money & subsequently got traded & bashed the Lakers Organization.
4) Didn' t get along with Pat Riley who called him out along with Dwayne Wade. Plus he publicly bashed several teammates/ staff of the Heat. He wash't worth the headache to the Heat.
5) I don't think there was any love lost in Phoenix either, but
I can't recall anything major.
That's called a pattern of behavior /immaturity.The only places Shaq seemed to really put his ego in check were with the Celtics & Cavs when he was chasing rings & finally realized he was at the end.
All I'm saying is Kobe seems to take far more blame than he deserved considering Shaq's track record.
Those Lakers teams weren't all that great past Shaq/Kobe (Rick Fox probably being the 3rd best player for most of the 3 peat) & I would be pissed too that I was trying to win with perhaps one the most immature/megalomaniac superstars to ever play.
Only real harsh teammates criticism Kobe had in 20 season's were Chunky Atkins & Smush Parker(whom Kobe defended for 2 seasons). Smush only thought Kobe was personally too standoffish.
Kobe is a Laker for life for a reason & Shaq was chasing rings in Cleveland & Boston for a reason.
Tim Duncan / Kobe would have been far more successful & deadly combo.
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