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re: More impressive MJs two 3 peats or LBJs possible one?
Posted on 5/31/14 at 10:42 pm to LSUTIGER in TEXAS
Posted on 5/31/14 at 10:42 pm to LSUTIGER in TEXAS
quote:
So great bc why?
I think I clearly showed why above that showed the path the Bulls had to take to get to the finals
quote:
The hornets? Really?
let us look at that Hornets team
Alonzo Mourning - very good center, 7x allstar
Larry Johnson - One of the dominant power forwards during his time in Charlotte until injuries cut his career short
Mugsy Bogues - extremely quick PG, great defender (steal) and great assist man
Very solid front court with Lynch, Reid and Newman who were all solid players
Kendall Gill was a solid guard
Also had possible the greatest 3 point shooter in NBA history in Dell Curry coming off the bench
Played extremely well together, had a potent offense and good D. Only problem they had was they happened to get paired against some great teams in the Bulls, Knicks, Pistons, Pacers.
Even against extremely tough competition they still held their own and were quite successful and constantly gave the top teams a run.
Played a competitive series against a very good Knick team that finished 60-22. Entire series went down to the wire. The exact same Knick team payed a very good series against the Bulls in the ECF.
So to answer your question.
The Hornets? Really?
Yes, they were a very good team that aside from the Heat, matches up against anyone the EC could bring the last few years.
This post was edited on 5/31/14 at 10:45 pm
2
Posted on 5/31/14 at 11:54 pm to ForkEmDemons
quote:the exact delusion im talking about. jordan's first 3 peat were in the summers of 91, 92, 93. the hornets drafted larry johnson in the summer of 91, after MJ had 1 title, drafted alonzo mourning in 92, once MJ had 2 titles, and didnt make the playoffs in the 93-94 season with a 41-41 record. but if you rely on delusion as your compass, a ridiculously young but talented squad was a big road block to michael jordan in the early 90s.
let us look at that Hornets team
Alonzo Mourning - very good center, 7x allstar
Larry Johnson - One of the dominant power forwards during his time in Charlotte until injuries cut his career short
Mugsy Bogues - extremely quick PG, great defender (steal) and great assist man
Very solid front court with Lynch, Reid and Newman who were all solid players
Kendall Gill was a solid guard
Also had possible the greatest 3 point shooter in NBA history in Dell Curry coming off the bench
Played extremely well together, had a potent offense and good D. Only problem they had was they happened to get paired against some great teams in the Bulls, Knicks, Pistons, Pacers.
Even against extremely tough competition they still held their own and were quite successful and constantly gave the top teams a run.
Played a competitive series against a very good Knick team that finished 60-22. Entire series went down to the wire. The exact same Knick team payed a very good series against the Bulls in the ECF.
So to answer your question.
The Hornets? Really?
Yes, they were a very good team that aside from the Heat, matches up against anyone the EC could bring the last few years.
jordan's second run did not include a mourning/larry johnson road block as mourning was shipped to miami for glen rice in 95 and larry johnson traded to the knicks on draft day 1996
your argument falls apart when the best players on those teams were either not in the league yet, or super young, or traded away before they became perennial all stars. its no different than me gushing about the golden state warriors with steph curry, klay thompson, harrison barnes, bogut, lee, and iggy.
This post was edited on 6/1/14 at 12:19 am
Posted on 6/1/14 at 12:10 am to ForkEmDemons
quote:spent the first 3 years of his career in charlotte, 1 all star game appearance.
Alonzo Mourning - very good center, 7x allstar
quote:first 5 years of career in charlotte, 2 time all star (total in his career, despite the "dominant" label put on him)
Larry Johnson - One of the dominant power forwards during his time in Charlotte until injuries cut his career short
quote:has no career accolades other than being the best super short guy in NBA history
Mugsy Bogues
quote:whos accolades include:
Kendall Gill
-NBA All-Rookie First Team (1991)
-NBA steals leader (1999)
-Consensus second team All-American (1990)
stop traffic......
this team is supposed to make this era better? seems like a young team whos draft picks bounce outta town the second they get the chance. but mugsy bogues played there, so you know jordan was intimidated
Posted on 6/1/14 at 12:35 am to LSUTIGER in TEXAS
quote:
has no career accolades other than being the best super short guy in NBA history
Thank you for proving that you are not very familiar with that era of basketball.
Bogues is the all-time career leader in minutes played, assists (5,557) and steals (1,069) for the Hornets. Sorry, but that is impressive and are definite accolades. By comparison Lebron James has 5,790 assists and 1,444 steals for his career.
That is some good stats, so Mugsy was definitely more than a "short guy"
And no Jordan didn't fear Mugsy, no need to.
Doesn't change the fact that he was a good player.
Yes, the Hornets were young, but they were a good team and better than many of this years playoff teams.
And you have yet to prove me wrong in my original point which was that the NBA had more depth during the Jordan era. Yes, the weaker teams were young, but still good.
The top teams were led by some of the all-time greats like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Drexler, Olajuwon, Ewing, Barkley, Dominique, Thomas, Miller, Robinson, Shaq, KJ, Mullins and Hardaway.
That's not counting the numerous players spread out throughout the league that were a notch below those guys.
You can't possibly look at the NBA today and say that the league is as competitive today as it was then. The talent during that era, as shown above, was unmatched before or since.
This post was edited on 6/1/14 at 1:06 am
Posted on 6/1/14 at 1:06 am to SammyTiger
Why are so many of you laughing at the comment made about nba today is better than MJ's nba?
The sport has grown internationally to the extent the USA got a bronze medal in the Olympics, and there tons of nba stars nowadays from foreign countries. Sport has grown and I think he's right.
The sport has grown internationally to the extent the USA got a bronze medal in the Olympics, and there tons of nba stars nowadays from foreign countries. Sport has grown and I think he's right.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 1:14 am to FourThinInches
quote:
and there tons of nba stars nowadays from foreign countries
There were tons of foreign players in that era as well:
Petrovich, Divac, Schrempf, Kukoc, Smits, Marciulionis, Olajuwon, Sabonis, Mutumbo just to name a few.
Put the Dream Team in any era and they dominate, easily the greatest basketball team ever assembled.
But yes, the game has grown globally.
This post was edited on 6/1/14 at 1:16 am
Posted on 6/1/14 at 1:27 am to Stringer Bell
two is better than one
Posted on 6/1/14 at 1:28 am to Mohamed Ali
quote:
The NBA is better now than it was during MJ's day
The East is a joke. The Pacers slept through the first two rounds and still made the Conference finals. They wouldn't have made it out of the first round in the West. The Heat had a nearly non-existent path into the NBA Finals, and this isn't the first time it's been like that.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 8:36 am to ForkEmDemons
quote:would you consider deron Williams a great player? Bc he's got 5633 assists and 711 steals through 9 seasons. No one really considers him a threat to lebron's titles, but he's a capable player. There's a big difference between being a long time productive player and being a star with a legit threat to win a title. Midget mugsy is the former, not the latter. We're not debating guys used to have long, productive careers, were debating high end talent capable of beating Jordan (none really were) in the 90s
Bogues is the all-time career leader in minutes played, assists (5,557) and steals (1,069) for the Hornets. Sorry, but that is impressive and are definite accolades. By comparison Lebron James has 5,790 assists and 1,444 steals for his career. That is some good stats, so Mugsy was definitely more than a "short guy"
And I'm still waiting for a retort about the Charlotte hornet powerhouse of the early 90s...
Posted on 6/1/14 at 8:54 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
There are 55 events in which there are world records in Track and Field.
33 of the world records have been set in the '00's.
18 still stand from the '90's.
Only 4 still stand from the '80's.
This actually supports my point that we haven't progressed as athletes and that athletes are fundamentally the same. Let's say the Olympic event was for flipping heads on a coin out of 100 times. That's perfectly random and no skill involved. You'd assume that the records would be split 50/50 between two eras. Considering one is after the other, the second one have more records just by virtue of more attempts. A random split would give 26.5 records to the 00s, instead of 33.
That gap of 6.5 records can be accounted for by improved technology, more attempts at the event, and the pace rabbit effect. Well, and that it is well within randomness. And that's not even getting into the fact that women are now treated like people in more parts of the world, and there's been the removal of the social stigma on women's athletes.
Athletes are not getting better. They aren't getting worse either. But athletes are roughly of the same quality.
Applying this to the the NBA, performance isn't better or worse now, it's just different. The game has changed, mainly by our first generation of players with no memory of the game before the three point shot. The three pointer radically changed tactics and prevented teams from packing the middle. The game is more guard oriented than its ever been, which leads to higher shooting percentages than ever. On the flip side, centers have been devalued and we're at an all-time low in center talent. It's not that they are worse athletes, its that the game never centers on them like it would have in 1990.
We;ll use a baseball example. David Ortiz, aside from racial issues, never makes the majors in 1908. He was terrible defensively and took huge home run swings in an era in which you just didnt do that. Teh equipment made it nearly impossible to do so. But on the flip side, Frank Chance was possibly the best 1B of that era, and he couldn't play now. He couldn't hit for power at all, but he was a marvelous defensive player -- a skill no longer valued in 1st baseman (they used to play much further from the bag). Neither guy could play in the other era... it doesn't make one worse, just mean the sport is different.
But yeah, the East did suck out loud this year.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 9:02 am to ForkEmDemons
quote:once again, I cannot disprove your opinion. I have stated I disagree with it and provided examples of why. HoFers is a poor measuring stick since 1. They let everyone in the basketball HoF, and 2. Active players are not eligible for the HoF, so we only have half (your half) the players to measure so we can't compare.
And you have yet to prove me wrong in my original point which was that the NBA had more depth during the Jordan era
quote:you say dominant, but he only made 2 all star games in his career. How dominant is that? Would anyone consider Shawn Marion a notable player from this era? No, but he's made 4 all star games, and 2 3rd team all NBA teams. He's an accomplished player, I personally love his style and versatility, but in 10 years, no one will be glowing about how Marion elevated the game of basketball.
Larry Johnson - One of the dominant power forwards during his time in Charlotte until injuries cut his career short
My point is simple. You say the old days were amazing, I say they're very comparable to today's game. For every team or player, I can give you today's version, only difference is today we don't have benefit of hindsight. The bad boy pistons who beat Jordan up in the late 80s is just like the boston big 3, keeping LBJ from playoff success until they got too old and he broke through. In the future we will look back and say OMG! There was a roster with MVP Derrick rose, Noah, Lu deng, AND coach thibs?!?!?? No way, those guys are all timers!! Wow, that was an awesome team! But in the moment we don't know what the future holds. Virtually all the 90s teams/players were romanticized in a way similar to the dunk contest. Back in the days, the dunks were turrible but everyone geeked out on a reverse dunk. Compare those dunks to today and they get blown away by 360, between legs, tomahawk, dunks from the 3 point line, and the crowd is still pretty tame.
This post was edited on 6/1/14 at 9:06 am
Posted on 6/1/14 at 9:19 am to LSUTIGER in TEXAS
quote:
you say dominant, but he only made 2 all star games in his career. How dominant is that? Would anyone consider Shawn Marion a notable player from this era? No, but he's made 4 all star games, and 2 3rd team all NBA teams. He's an accomplished player, I personally love his style and versatility, but in 10 years, no one will be glowing about how Marion elevated the game of basketball.
Yet Marion was the second best player on the last team other than the Heat to win the title. If you don't think Marion is player worthy of glowing praise, yet he was one of the best players on a team that won the NBA title... doesn't that sort of demonstrate the current state of decline in the NBA's quality of play? By your own argument?
I'm also sure you're aware that chronic back problems robbed Johnson of his career. He was great for a very brief period of time, and then his play fell off a cliff.
quote:
My point is simple. You say the old days were amazing, I say they're very comparable to today's game. For every team or player, I can give you today's version, only difference is today we don't have benefit of hindsight.
Of course. Well, it's different, but the quality of player is pretty similar, which is my whole argument. But no, there isn't an equivalent of Laimbeer in today's game because it would be highly, highly illegal. That's not really a quality argument, but more of rules one.
My argument is a player is not better by virtue of playing now, which is just as wrong headed as looking back in rose-colored nostalgia. You say people look back at players in the 90s without a critical eye, and then you do the same thing with modern players.
I do think the East is terrible this year, but that has nothing to do with nostalgia. That has to do with now. The 3 best records are in the West. The three worst are in the East. The 9th place Suns would've finished 3rd in the East with that record. The east is f'n terrible this year. The West is pretty great.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 9:57 am to Baloo
quote:I think we can all agree with this
I do think the East is terrible this year, but that has nothing to do with nostalgia. That has to do with now. The 3 best records are in the West. The three worst are in the East. The 9th place Suns would've finished 3rd in the East with that record. The east is f'n terrible this year. The West is pretty great.
As far as how Marion is viewed, I think it's more about perception than lack of quality, the dunk contest being the main parallel.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:32 am to Mohamed Ali
quote:
The NBA is better now than it was during MJ's day
Glad my comment stirred the pot
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:37 am to Mohamed Ali
If any person thinks 3 rings is better than 6 rings, you are simply dumb. No other way to put it
What Lebron has done the past 3 years (assuming he actually wins this year), MJ did it 2 times. It shouldnt even be a discussion...
What Lebron has done the past 3 years (assuming he actually wins this year), MJ did it 2 times. It shouldnt even be a discussion...
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:38 am to jg8623
Yeah well it is because someone made the thread
Lebron being clutch shouldn't be a discussion either, but it is.
Lebron being clutch shouldn't be a discussion either, but it is.
This post was edited on 6/1/14 at 10:38 am
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